[Updated With Important Warning for Braille Display Users] Apple Releases iOS 14.4 and iPadOS 14.4; Bringing a New Direct Touch Setting for VoiceOver Users

Every time a new iOS update comes out, someone always leaves this kind of comment. Sure, there might still be bugs, but iOS accessibility is great on the whole in my opinion, and if you bothered reading the post, you'd find that there are accessibility changes, namely the fix to how direct touch works. I'm not sure what you try to gain by leaving this comment - if you're tired of the way Apple does things, I think you should just advocate, report bugs constructively and hope they get fixed or consider switching platform. Sorry about the rant, the negativity just bothers me.

To add to what Malthe mentioned, if you think accessibility is good or handled more efficiently on the other side of the pond, please do give the OS switch a serious thought. Of course, mishandling of access issues by other OS/handset producers doesn't justify the acceptance of bugs on the iOS side. But I don't get it when people bring up such complaints here. iOS, like any operating system, has bugs, and it affects both sighted and blind users. However, Apple has displayed encouraging commitment to handling access issues the way non-access issues are gradually taken care of. We should be Pollyannas to believe in the concept of an absolutely bug-free experience.

Of course bugs appear in any operating system. The point is about how quickly they get fixed, if at all. Apple have an excellent reputation in this regard, as long as your are not a Voice Over user. Customers are entitled to complain if the high-priced devices they buy are defective. No one shouts down sighted customers or the technology press who create a storm when even the tiniest bug appears which affects the camera or call reception. This is about parity. And the right to be treated equally. Too many people here see themselves as charity cases instead of paying customers with the same rights as others - basically the Uncle Toms of the blind world. Sorry to be some blunt, but the shooting down of ligitimate concerns about why VO bugs take so long to address from the corporate brainwashed be-thankful-for-what-you-get bragade is harmful to our community.

Really? I feel like turnaround on accessibility bugs is pretty fast, but tell me what you hope to gain by whining in some random comment thread? I'm not saying we shouldn't advocate, but claiming that "Apple don't care about accessibility" on every single update post doesn't resolve anything. Are there bugs? Yes. Do we want them solved? Of course, but this kind of attitude seems off putting and petulant to me. I'm not saying we should just be thankful for what we get, but there's a difference between advocating and just posting the same "nobody cares about a11y" everytime an update is pushed out. It gets old, and I for one am tired of reading it.

I could post the list of outstanding bugs maintained on this very site in reply, but you already know about it. Given this page has a header stating no outstanding bugs have been fixed it appears you are just being obtuse. This is a blog page for discussion. Apple made an important statement about executive pay being related to accessibility so it’s fair game to discuss performance in general relating to fixing Voice Over bugs. But do you know what is more rediculous than people who whine? People who wine abut wining. If you don’t like this thread, ignore it, don’t wine.

I've gone too far down the rabbit hole now, so I'm gonna respond ;)
If you read my comment above, you will note I'm not claiming that there are no outstanding bugs in iOS, nor do I claim that Apple have no faults. I'm just saying that the tone of these comments, that by the way are always appearing under every single new update post, have the same air of petulance. Take this quote from comment #2 for instance:
"Yet again we see another iOS update with no accessibility bug fixes. It just proves my point about that promise of executive salaries being tied to accessibility as being nothing but smoke and mirrors."
Do you think that's gonna motivate anyone, whether they're an engineer or an executive, to fix bugs? Of course not. Once again, if you read my comment, you will note that I'm not claiming Apple are bug free or that we shouldn't critique them, I'm just getting very tired of the tone, which I suppose is my cross to bear.
Edit: Fixed typos

I'm out.

The problem with these "stop being so whiny" posts is that the people making them always try to qualify their statements by saying they're not against critiquing Apple, but at the same time any criticism of Apple is dismissed as whiny or entitled. In the sighted world, while debates about platforms can get quite fierce, you don't see comments about bugs dismissed as whiny. Sighted people are not dismissed as being petulent for demanding a certain level of quality from products they pay for. what I ultimately think this comes down to is blind people accusing other blind people of being children to seem more like the sighted people they fear and envy.

"Fear and envy"? Please...

Yes, because a lot of this sentiment boils down to people fearing that if they display anything other than meek gratitude, accessibility will be taken away. The envy comes from the fat that critical comments are a reminder of the disparity in how Apple and other companies treat accessibility versus non-accessibility issues. In this case, that envy isn't a negative, but dealing with it by dismissing people who point out this reality to you as being whiny and entitled is.

I also have experienced this. I've found the only way to get rid of it is to simply send the blank message to myself instead of where it was originally supposed to go because otherwise the draft simply can't be deleted, at least not that I have been able to figure out.

So, as we’re dropping the immotive language hopefully we can create more light than heat. Leaving aside that I don’t believe for one minute that an Apple engineer or executive is reading this blog, you make a telling point about motivation with such people. Why does an engineer or executive do what they do? They get paid to do it. They take pride in their product. A better product sells more. I have read many, many discussion pages about many non-Apple products I have had with faults of one kind or another. Some of the comments from angry and disappointed customers would make even me blush! Do you know what I’ve never seen? Posts from customers suggesting things won’t get fixed unless they’re nice to the engineers. It’s a peculiarly blind thing, and yes, the person who stated this attitude is from fear has a point , I think. Of course we should be courteous in our dealings with Apple, although reading above it is not always something extended to people with differing opinions on this site. Maybe it is just reserved for Apple engineers who can fix things. But you know what, they fix things because it’s their job and it’s your right to have a device you paid for that is fit for purpose. We don’t have to be terrified the nice engineer won’t do it because we are not grateful enough. In any case we are just talking among ourselves. And yes, I think the person who posted comment number two is understandablely right to be disappointed Apple haven’t fixed any Voice Over bugs this update. So am I.

The ironic thing is, I think Apple would uphold anyone’s right to be unhappy, and yes, angry, about Voice Over bugs causing issues for customers that don’t get fixed in a timely manner when reported . I think it’s probable there are organisational, resource and departmental communications issues that get in the way. And I think the timidity caused by the don’t-rock-the-boat attitude of some on this site is an obstacle to pressing the case for reviewing the process of how Voice Over bugs are dealt with by Apple. I think we should be more forceful in letting Apple know they need to come up with a way of addressing Voice Over bugs as efficiently as they do when wacking other bugs. After all, their performance bonus depends on it. :)

You are absolutely correct and I may not have made this clear in my previous post. I wasn’t trying to say we should treat people badly when reporting bugs. My point was that while being polite we can also be persistent. Don’t sit back and wait for things to happen.

From the main post above:

For those unfamiliar with Direct Touch, it's a way in which developers can tell VoiceOver to ignore touch events in part or all of an app's screen so that the app can handle those touch events directly. Examples include virtual instruments, exploring a map by touch, interpreting touches and gestures in a game, and so on.

So, what you appear to want would not be possible, as it's beyond the intended purpose and scope of the feature.

Honestly Malthe, I found the John Gurd comments totally relevant and yours not. Apple is the most valuable company in the tech industry and doesn't deliver the quality you should expect when we pay such price for a product. In a minor release like this, it should have any new bugs introduced, at least not as huge as this new Braille one.

In the past Apple took 6 months to solve a HandyTech driver issues and for 2 versions of macOS major versions screen magnifier was unusable for some users, it is just unacceptable.

We shouldn't accept this situation just because Android is considered worth for accessibility.

We would post such comment while Apple wouldn't makes accessibility a first class citizen on it's product.

What we expect with John is what a blind version of Steve Jobs would expect, not more. We don't request a major feature, we don't request something enormous, just figuring bugs. Bugs are not magic, bugs are introduced by Apple employee so it is normal to request to them to figure out them.

Hi mcox, this is not really the same. When Microsoft publish Windows 10 version 20H2 (in last October), this was a facultative update, not installed automatically by default on all Windows 10 devices. This means version 20H2 will be deployed on user's device in six months or one yearso it let the time to Microsoft to figure out the remaining bugs. Also on Windows, people rely on NVDA or Jaws which have their own release schedule to address bugs. Also it is possible to downgrade NVDA or Jaws if any issues occur.

By default on iOS, every new updates are installed by default on device. You can't downgrade VoiceOver if their are a buggy upgrade. The only solution you've to restore your last saved backup of iOS on the previous release. Microsoft knows bugs will occur and doesn't force the update, whereas Apple are arrogant and deliver the update by default on users devices, so if they encourage you to upgrade, you're in your right to complain the update they've provided to you is not as good as it should be for automatic release.

this direct touch thing has been around as early as ios 10, maybe earlier. the point is it will work automatically if the developer know how to implement it, otherwise, it won't. many people think this is like command pass through, it is not. the only thing added is a roter for you to turn it off, but why would you want to turn it off if that's how the app is supposed to operate? so it is totally useless, in my opinion. but apple just says we add a roter and bills this as some kind of new feature, and people just go gaga over it. no wonder they make so much money, right?

It is on the native mail app. which I really use extensively. The only way to get rid of it is use that draft to send a mail to yourself. Like sending yourself postcards and flowers on valentines day. It's a bug; thank you I shall report it to aa

I am not very clear with the accessibility option of Direct Touch; here is a apple vis user asking a question on it. If you can help answer it would be really helpful https://www.applevis.com/forum/ios-ipados/what-direct-touch

Instead of making such unproductive remarks; it's best as a VO user you bring the bug or challenge to the attention of the accessibility team of apple. In my experience, they have been responsive, helpful and have addressed many bugs. I understand that every new release has it's own set of challenges and it's not practical to expect a perfect IOS release unless AI becomes so intellegent that IOS code writes itself and patched the gaps in related actions by itself

Don't be a cookie monster and make such unproductive comments

As per my experience; I haven't run into issues with VO. Some applications I use are the ones I am frustrated with because they are not made accessible. Applications that have unlabelled buttons and images as buttons with no text to understand what the control is for. Brail users are facing some accessibility challenges and I believe in due course of time, apple will address them. It doesn't matter what share of the market we users are for them, they sincerely advocate social change by making their product accessible. The look on the faces of many of my friends when I show them what they failed to do on a Mac; it's just priceless!

It's a little puzzling that people use this to defind Apple. Apple is the world's most valuable company and could easily afford a competent quality control team. In addition, these comments completely ignore the fact that many people are reliant on Braille support, and these bugs have forced people to choose between being able to use their devices and making themselves vulnerable to security flaws that are currently being exploited.

Interestingly, on the Android side, the excuse generally used to defend its accessibility issues is that Google is a young company (they launched in 1998). Before criticising what you perceive as negativity, you should ask yourself why other disability communities have been much more successful in their accessibility advocacy. (Hint: it's because a consensus that excusing inaccessibility will somehow make things better by making companies see how grateful we are hasn't taken hold in these communities as it has among blind people.)

I agree, Apple accessibility team has made a great effort over the year to improve the answers there are giving to user.

I try to report bug as much as possible and I encourage people to use the beta program of Apple to be able to report them bugs before they reach all the users.