The Accessibility Bugs in iOS 8: From Serious To Minor

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

***Update 17 November 2014: More of these bugs have been fixed in iOS 8.1.1. See our post for more details: Apple Releases iOS 8.1.1 with Fixes for Blind and Low Vision Users***

***Update 20 October 2014: A number of these bugs have been fixed in iOS 8.1. See our post for more details: Apple Releases iOS 8.1 With a Number Of Fixes And Improvements For Blind And Low Vision Users***

Detailed in this post are possible accessibility bugs which members of the AppleVis Editorial Team have identified during their testing of iOS 8. If you have not already updated your iDevice to iOS 8, we strongly recommend that you read through this post and any comments before doing so, as we believe that there are a number of bugs in this release which might have a significant impact on the user experience for some blind and low vision users.

However, we do need to stress at the offset that our testing of iOS 8 has been somewhat limited. We are only a small team, and in most cases have only installed and used iOS 8 on a single device. Also, some of the bugs listed have not been encountered by all members of the Team. So, please bear in mind that it is possible that problems mentioned below will not be present on all iDevices or in all use cases. It is also possible that, in some instances, we are simply mistaken. Accordingly, we would really appreciate feedback from those who have installed iOS 8 - to confirm whether they are encountering the same problems (or have found workarounds), as well as to let us know of any additional issues that are not on this list. Of course, it’s even more important that you let Apple know of any additional bugs that you find (they already know about the ones currently listed here). This post explains why and the best ways to do it.

With all of the disclaimers out of the way, here are the problems that we have encountered to date. For this release, we have grouped them based upon what we believe to be there likely level of impact to the user experience:

Serious Bugs

  1. In Braille options (Settings > General > Accessibility > VoiceOver > Braille), changing the setting for Status Cell from "off" to either left or right will cause VoiceOver to stop working completely. The only way to get VoiceOver back is to set the cell back to "off", and to do that one will need sighted help since VoiceOver is completely inoperative. Toggling VoiceOver with the shortcut, telling Siri to turn VoiceOver off and back on, restarting the device - nothing works except changing the status cell option. Additionally, it now appears as though this bug will also present itself when upgrading from an earlier version of iOS if the status cell is set to either Left or Right-necessitating that the VoiceOver user turn the Status Cell to "off" before the upgrade.

  2. In many applications, the screen does not automatically scroll to follow the movement of VoiceOver focus as you swipe through the page. This causes problems when focus lands on an actionable element which is not visually displayed on screen, as you cannot interact with it. For example, the screen does not scroll when flicking through an email. So, if there is an attachment at the bottom of the message, double-tapping on it may not open it as you would expect. One exception is links, where the screen will scroll to their location when focus moves to them. However, moving focus beyond the link will cause the screen to scroll back to its previous position. This behaviour has been encountered in a large number of apps. When this results in VoiceOver focus landing on actionable elements which are visually not being displayed on the screen, it is likely to be confusing and extremely frustrating to users who will not know why a gesture isn't working. The only workaround is to use the 3-finger swipe up/down to bring the desired element on to the screen, locate it by touch, and then double-tap.

  3. Various problems have been reported when using a bluetooth keyboard, including duplicate and skipped characters; conflicts with QuickNav when accessing text fields; VoiceOver-specific controls not working; and VoiceOver occasionally crashing and restarting.

  4. When using the Share option to send a message from outside of the stock Messages app (such as sharing a recording from Voice Memos), double-tapping on the "Send" button does nothing. To successfully send the message, one must disable VoiceOver and attempt to find the "Send" button with no spoken feedback.

  5. Once in awhile if one uses the Keypad to dial a number, they may encounter a stuck key. For example, as you press a number you will hear the DTMF tone for that number. At times, a number will seem to get stuck in that the DTMF tone will keep playing. One must do a reset of the phone to make it stop. We have also found that pressing the same key a second time or removing the Phone app from the App Switcher is sometimes enough to fix the problem without resorting to a complete restart. Reports suggest that this problem is only present when using Touch Typing Mode.

  6. QuickNav appears not to work with a Braille display. Enabling it is supposed to be done with space and Q, but VoiceOver always reports that it is on, thus suggesting it's never on. Pressing H for heading, F for text field, etc, yield no results. This problem has been seen on a Braille Sense Plus and Vareo Ultra.

  7. Using the Handwriting mode crashes VoiceOver. VoiceOver will restart itself in a few seconds, but this does make handwriting unusable.

  8. In Safari, using the Back button or Scrub gesture to return to the previous page will result in VoiceOver becoming near unusable. VoiceOver will read an item if you locate it by touch, but flicking will not move focus. The only workaround it to locate the Reload button and double-tap.

Moderate Bugs

  1. In the lock screen, when a user receives a new Notification, VoiceOver sometimes does not announce the Notification nor the content of the Notification. You will only hear the chime or the default sound for that Notification and nothing else is announced. Conversely, sometimes VoiceOver speaks the entire notification instead of announcing the time and the number of pending notifications.

  2. VoiceOver fails to read the caller ID for incoming calls on the iPhone, whether on the lock screen or while the phone is unlocked. The information is still displayed, and you can touch the screen to find it, but it is no longer announced automatically. A temporary workaround is to enable “Always Speak Notifications” in Settings > General > Accessibility > VoiceOver. However, note that this will have privacy implications.

  3. When in a message thread's details screen, if the thread has attachments, VoiceOver is sluggish and may even crash when flicking right through the attachments for the first time. Flicking left, or even right past any attachments VoiceOver has already encountered, works fine. It is only attachments VoiceOver has not yet seen that cause the problem.

  4. On the “All” tab of the Notification Center, the "Clear Section" buttons are announced as "Confirm Clear Section", even if you have not activated them. You still must double tap twice to clear a section, but you will hear "Confirm Clear Section" both times. Additionally, VoiceOver gives no audible feedback to indicate that the gesture was successful.

  5. In the Featured Tab of the App Store, VoiceOver focus will loop continually through a carousel of highlighted items displayed near the top of the page. The only way to force focus out of this loop is to tap elsewhere on the screen.

  6. When double-tapping on the name of a contact in App Switcher to reveal the available contact options, VoiceOver does not announce the identifying label when there are multiple options for the same contact method - for example, home, work and cellular telephone numbers will all be read as simply "phone call".

  7. When first opening the App Switcher you can move through all of the listed contacts by flicking left/right. However, after double-tapping on a contact to reveal the available contact options, flicking will no longer move VoiceOver focus through all of the contacts. Instead, you have to use the 3-finger swipe left/right to make VoiceOver see all of the listed contacts.

  8. In some apps the screen will auto-lock whilst VoiceOver is in the process of reading text (generally when reading a long block of text). If you have disabled the auto lock in Settings > General > Autolock, this will not affect you.

  9. In some circumstances it is not possible to move app icons on the Home screen. This seems to be particularly problematic for those located in the row of icons directly above the Dock.

  10. When browsing the list of subscription options available in Settings > iCloud > iCloud Drive, VoiceOver announces only the price, not the amount of storage space that you get with the package. For reference, as of the time of this writing, the $0.99 per month is 20GB, $3.99 is 200GB, $9.99 is 500GB, and $19.99 is 1TB.

  11. If you tell Siri to add a reminder or Calendar event, it will display your event along with the cancel/confirm buttons. However, Siri speech may be silent or speak a couple words at most, and the prompt for you to speak the action you'd like is never given. This is with Siri's speech feedback set to "always", which works when using Siri for other tasks.

  12. Upon first downloading the Alex TTS Voice, VoiceOver fails to switch automatically from the voice in use while the Alex download was in progress. One must turn VoiceOver off, then reenable it.

  13. The button to purchase an item from the iTunes Store does not always respond to a double-tap. It is reported that in some cases a double-tap and hold on the button may work, followed by another double-tap and hold to confirm the purchase.

  14. When using a Braille display, using space with F prompts you to search for text, but this only works like the search box in the item chooser. It is also case sensitive.

  15. On occasions, VoiceOver will not announce that an email folder is empty when you tap or swipe onto the area of the screen where any email messages would be listed. Instead, the only audible feedback is a muted ‘clunk’ tone. The behavior has been seen in both smart folders and regular folders.

  16. When writing a draft email, flicking left past the "cancel" button will not move you to the "minimize draft" button (which is visually located directly below the status bar). Similarly, touching the minimize button will focus on it, but you cannot then flick right to get to the rest of the page. This is doubly problematic as the button is small, so many users may not realize it is even there since they cannot flick to it and touch exploration can easily miss it.

  17. The VoiceOver Keyboard echo setting is unreliable. It does not take effect in 3rd party apps and some stock asps such as Messages. As a result, keys are always echoed. The only noticeable difference is that the pitch of the echo appears to vary based upon the setting selected.

  18. There are some issues with iBooks created using iBooks Author. Notably, the drag and drop widget does not work with VoiceOver; VoiceOver does not announce if a selected answer is correct in iBooks reviews; and the reviews widget does not show the letter buttons to VoiceOver users.

  19. In Braille screen input, the space (one-finger flick right) does not register roughly half the time. It is not misinterpreted as a dot 4, since no dot 4 is entered, it is simply ignored. This makes Braille very frustrating to use.

  20. In Braille screen input, when deleting or entering text, a sound sometimes plays, the same sound made if you try to flick past the end or start of a screen. The character is usually deleted/entered, as far as we can tell, but the sound precludes any speech feedback so users will have no idea what is going on. Plus, sometimes, the character is not deleted and you have to use the on-screen keyboard to delete it instead.

  21. Occasionally, when using the 2-fingered double-tap to answer a call, audio playback will resume rather than the call being answered.

  22. Some users have reported that the 2-fingered double-tap does not always answer or end a call (most likely related to the above bug).

  23. When searching the App Store, the Clear button will remove any previous search from the text field, but VoiceOver will continue to read what was previously entered in the search field … even after you enter a completely new search. The same happens if you delete characters individually.

  24. Some users have reported problems using the multitasking gestures available on the iPad.

  25. In Safari, VoiceOver will not speak the accessible name of HTML input controls that have a programmatically associated label, whether implicit or explicit.

  26. If you have your device set to use the 24 hour time format, when viewing hourly forecasts in the Stock Weather app, VoiceOver only reads the time for the hours between 0:00 and 11:00.

Minor Bugs

Setup

  1. Updating the device from iOS 7.1.x to iOS 8 will not remember the VoiceOver Typing Preference.

General

  1. When automatically switching languages, VoiceOver triggers compact voices even if the premium versions are installed.

  2. When in a Group Message, at the top right hand corner is the "Details" button. Flick once to the right and you will land on an Unlabeled button. This button seems to do the same thing as the "Details" button.

  3. When using the Group message facility, the button to add a title to the conversation is not detected by VoiceOver.

  4. When you have issued a say all command (a two finger flick up or down), VoiceOver ignores all incoming notifications instead of pausing to speak them. This is a feature, but notifications from the Messages app are an exception. In other words, VoiceOver will ignore all notifications except incoming texts; those usually cause VoiceOver to stop reading entirely.

  5. In the Mail app, when you have a draft minimized, VoiceOver's focus is affected. Elements are out of order as you flick left or right, you suddenly get stuck and cannot move past an element, or you get into loops where VoiceOver keeps moving between a few elements as you flick left or right, and never moves beyond those few. Sending or canceling the draft, so the "x drafts in progress" message is gone from the bottom of the window, is enough to restore things to normal.

  6. In the stock iOS Calendar app, you can double tap and hold on an event, then move a finger up or down to adjust its start or end time. However, VoiceOver offers no feedback as to the new time as you move your finger, so you must move, lift your finger, check the new time, then try again to make this work at all.

  7. When VoiceOver focus is on an item in the Dock, a 3-fingered swipe to the left or right will no longer move your through Home screen pages (It is possible that this is by design).

  8. When browsing the Still Photo Wallpapers available in Settings > Wallpaper > Choose, VoiceOver reads what appears to be the internal file name for the picture.

  9. When using some third-party keyboards, the status bar is duplicated directly above the top row of the keyboard.

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336 Comments

VO and Siri Issue!

Hey Missy,
The VO and Siri bug also happens without Alex voice. Considering all bugs with VO, I'm sure it's related specific to VO coding.

Quality of Voices in IOS 8.0

In response to the query respecting a comparison of the voice quality in IOS 8.0 and 8.0.2 as compared to IOS 7.1.2, I would observe that the voices are the same with the exception of Alex. Indeed, IOS 7.1.2 and IOS 8.0 and 8.0.2 all feature the default, or compact, voices as well as the enhanced quality voices which must be downloaded when connected to a wifi network. I much prefer the enhanced quality voices, as they have been improved vastly since their first roll-out with earlier OS versions.

Hope this is helpful.

Sarah Cripps.

Braille Keyboard

Hi.

Why is the braille keyboard backwards? I'm using the screen away mode with my thumbs on the back of my phone and my fingers on the screen which is facing away from me. on the left side, dot 3 is at the top, then dot 2, and dot 1. Why is this backwards? This makes it very difficult to type since I expect the dots to go 1, 2, 3, going down the left side of the screen, not the other way around. If I flip my phone around, dots 4, 5, and 6 are on the left which makes absolutely no sense. So, my question is, how useful is this braille keyboard if it's backwards?
I'm not going to use tabletop mode, because it's even more confusing than screen away mode.

Braille Screen Input

I may be able to contribute to this one.

When I reset my iPhone 4s back to factory settings and set it up as a new device, I had exactly the same problem. What helped me in the end was the calibration. Once I did this, the dots were where I was expecting them, with 1 2 3 down the left hand side and 4 5 6 down the right. However these are reversed on the right in my case so be aware of that. Please note you should not have to calibrate every time; just the very first time you use Braille Screen Input.

Good luck.

Thanks, JP!

Hi there! I just wanted to thank you for letting me know that the siri bug happens with other voices too. Now that Alex is on my phone, I don't think I could ever bring myself to go back to Samantha or any of the other vocalizer voices. Alex has made my phone a joy to use, and I think I might even be able to read EBooks from time to time now.

braille input mode

Hi there! I haven't actually attempted to use this yet, but I wonder if they modeled it after a slate and stilus for some reason? That's the only explanation I can think of for dots being backwards. On a more serious note, though, can MBraille still be used, and if so, can it just be added to the keyboard list or whatever? I understand that Apple supports 3rd keyboard software keyboards now, but as I have no use for things like that, I have never seriously investigated. Maybe someday there will be an MBraille update to provide this functionality, or maybe if enough people try to help and explain to Apple where they've gone wrong, the issues can be fixed?

Braille Keyboard Dot Positions

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

Hello Chris,

On my iPhone 6 Plus (and on the iPhone 5S I used before that), the dots on the Braille keyboard are configured correctly. Dot 1 is under my index/pointer finger, dot 2 is under my middle finger, and dot 3 is under my ring finger. The same goes for dots 4-6, with dot 4 under my pointer/index finger, dot 5 under my middle finger, and dot 6 under my ring finger. Is your keyboard oriented differently?

Braille Keyboard

Hello.

How is this correct? It's backwards because dot 1 is on the bottom. From typing on a physical braille keyboard, I would expect dot 1 to be at the top, not the bottom. Then again, I would probably feel more comfortable if tabletop mode worked like it should, IE with 1, 2, and 3 on the left side of the screen and 4, 5, and 6 on the right side.
I don't know, this braille keyboard seems half-baked to me.
I just don't get why it's the opposite way around.

Braille Keyboard Not Half-Baked...

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

The iOS 8 Braille keyboard is not "half-baked". It uses the same finger-dot positions as used on a Perkins Braillewriter--for example, dot 1 is pressed with the left-hand index finger, etc. The way it should work is as follows:

  • Dot 1: Left hand, index finger.
  • Dot 2: Left hand, middle finger.
  • Dot 3: Left hand, ring finger.
  • Dot 4: Right hand, index finger.
  • Dot 5: Right hand, middle finger.
  • Dot 6: Right hand, ring finger.

Are you getting different results?

That's interesting

That's interesting. On my 4s I have the Braille keyboard so that dots 1, 2 and 3 are on the left second, third and fourth fingers respectively, while dots 4, 5 and 6 are on the right fourth, third and second fingers respectively. I can replicate this at all times.

Dot Positions

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

Hi Christopher,

On your 4S, is dot 4 not across the screen, if you will, from dot 1? It should be pressed with your second finger, ideally. Also, what mode are you using?

MBraille

MBraille will still work, however it will run like it did in previous iOS releases. At this time it cannot be used as a third party keyboard.

Weather Bug!

Hey Guys,
I'm not sure if this bug is in this post yet. I just encountered it this morning in the weather app.
At the bottom of the screen, it gives sunrise, sunset, humidity, pressure, etc. When you toggle to the second city voice over doesn't read that information which is clearly their.
I already reported to Apple. I found this running iOS 8. 02 on an iPod 5G.

LLong time IOS User Fed Up with Apple and IOS8

I have been using Apple and IOS since the 3GS and I'm sorry but IOS 8.0.2 is complete crap. I am tired of all the VO bugs and instead of the NFB releasing an idiotic proclamation a few months ago about apps being accessible maybe they should focus their energy on products that are accessible and quality control. On my iPhone 5S Voiceover is constantly crashing and I have to tell Siri to turn it off and then back on to get it working again. I have followed all the responses here, and if Apple does not significantly improve IOS 8 and VO in the upcoming 8.1 then we as a community should be looking in to a class action lawsuit against Apple for fraudulently misrepresenting an accessible product. I am no expert on legalese but there has to be something legally we as a community can do, as what Apple has done with accessibility of IOS and performance should be criminal, and not being able to dial a freaking phone number on a phone should be point number one. I keep hearing don't worry Apple is committed to accessible, well don't tell me show me, as these bugs of VO constantly crashing, not being able to dial a phone number, scrolling and focus issues all worked in IOS 7 and I do get there are going to be issues with a new operating system, but IOS 8 should not have been released to the public if it was going to totally screw the blind and take this many steps backwards. Apple has absolutely lost my trust as a customer, and I have learned my lesson as I had read all the accessibility issues before upgrading but with Apple's prior track record, I thought it can't be that bad and I can deal with the issues. Well, like I said, I learned my lesson, don't trust Apple, as either VO and accessibility is really hard to get right or Apple doesn't care that much about VO, and since we the blind are such a minor percentage of iPhone users we are an after thought. I will not be updating my macs to the new version coming out later this year as I can only imagine what a debacle VoiceOver will be on the mac.

calibrating for braille screen input

After reading some of the previous comments about the braille screen input, I think I know why I couldn't use it. How do you calibrate the braille screen input when you first start using it? Also, how can you keep it in a way mode at all times. I found out that using the tabletop mowed at least on my end of things was rather difficult.

Well yes, but it's down

Well yes, but it's down towards the bottom of the screen, so diagonally as it were instead of straight across. I always use tabletop mode. But the strange thing is Braille Screen Input works 100% like a Perkins Braille writer and the dots are always where they should be with no juggling necessary.

Dots 4-5-6 dots 1-2-3 will

Dots 4-5-6 dots 1-2-3 will calibrate Braille Screen Input. The only way to keep it in whatever mode you choose is to hold the phone still, either upright or on a flat surface. I use my lap for tabletop mode.

Yes, I submitted to Apple Accessibilty

Yes, Christopher I submitted my bug list to Apple Accessibility and got their standard typical answer that they are sorry for my experience and they cannot comment on when there might be a fix. You say instead of posting here. I'm sorry but I thought this was a forum to discuss Apple Accessibility I guess you are one of those who only want to hear the positive of Apple Accessibility

Typical Blindy Response: Threaten Legal Action

Blindgator,

The fact that you are even entertaining the idea of a class-action lawsuit against Apple is both incredibly disturbing...and so typical of blind people these days.

Apple's iPhones are the most accessible smartphones available. Put bluntly, if you don't like iOS 8, please reach out to Apple Accessibility and be part of the solution. Lastly, please spare the rest of us from the embarrassment and ill-will that would most certainly come from attempting to bring a class-action suit against Apple. Hopefully, any judge would see such an attempt for what it is: misguided...at best.

typical blindy response/blindy entitlement

When I read the post of someone threatening a class action suit against Apple, I was disgusted. Sure, IOS8 has some bugs, some of which are incredibly annoying, but most don't impede day-to-day functionality so drasticly as to warrant this kind of reaction. In fact, I've only encountered a handful of bugs, and I have every confidence that Apple will fix them over the next few months.

I had a co-worker who was ranting and raving in a similar manner to this, and I just couldn't believe it. If Apple, or any other company for that matter, encounters a steady stream of these militant, self-important blindies who think they're entitled to have everything exactly the way they want it all the time, then they, meaning the companies, won't want to help the blind community. It's whiners like this who give the blind community a bad name, IMO. And now, I'm going to just go off the grid for the rest of the day because I don't want to say anything I might end up regretting on this topic.

Get a backbone

Ok now you generalize me so I will do the same, grow a spine, and stop blindly giving Apple credit and believing they can do no wrong. Did Apple have a good track record with accessibility. Yes. Has IOS 8 been a quality experience for VoiceOver users, no. By your comments I assume if sighted people buy a product that works great then upgrade it to a new operating system and can't dial a phone number, or navigate the device without it constantly crashing would they sit back and take it? I doubt so, why should I as a blind consumer be any different?

Please Be Part of the Solution

Blindgator,

Have you contacted Apple Accessibility to try and find some solutions? Have you asked them what your options are, given the severity of the issues you're experiencing? Have you offered to send them crash logs, since VoiceOver is obviously not working right on your device? In other words, have you done anything to be an active part of the solution? (And no, threatening legal action doesn't count.)

Lastly, Blindgator, please remember that Android is always an option. (As is the Samsung Haiven, which you can still find online--I looked.) Unless I'm horribly mistaken, however, the iPhone is the most accessible smartphone available.

the blind consumer

blindgator,
I fear that you are overlooking the fact that the blind community as a whole make up a very small percentage of apple customers. If it the update was full of bugs which affected the sighted user, the larger demographic that apple will cater too, then I think the response would be much more timely. Frankly, I don't think they would be at all threatened by some blindies threatening a lawsuit. As blind consumers, we just need to make the best of a bad situation in this case a buggy OS and file bug reports to the adequate avenues and hope they will one day be addressed in a later update.

Final Thoughts

I find it hilarious every time I say something negative about Apple that you have certain people react as if I have insulted a relative of their's. For those few of you who did not read my comments in there entirety, I stated I had contacted Apple accessibility. I made the mistake of not putting in my first post that I contacted Apple Accessibility before ever posting here on the open forum. Yes, I have stated that Apple has done a good job in the past with accessibility, and I find it hilarious that any time someone like me who was using VoiceOVer since the 3GS says anything negative about Apple someone always responds why don't you switch to Android. I guess I am one of the few who expects a little more from Apple and do not expect to be treated like a second class citizen and just accept that they have accessibility built in. Maybe if more of you raised a stink instead of just sitting back and praising Apple for every little thing maybe in the future we wouldn't get such a broken VO operating system. I am not wanting to attack anyone personally my initial post while venting my frustration was also meant to be proactive not get a bunch of Apple loyalists suggesting I switch to Android and contact Apple accessibility the latter which I have done multiple times and gotten the same expected answer from them. I guess I just expect more out of things than others which I just say to each his own.

amuzing

I'm starting to find this post amuzing, thanks for the laughs, oh and just for the records there are windows screen readers out there like jaws that are far less stable than voiceover and I find that windows screen reading companys take a lot longer than apple to fix bugs. I would buy a mac if I could afford it. I too am confident that Apple will get these issues fixed.

My thoughts

Hello All,

I have read every post on this thread. It is amazing to me that every year applevis puts out a thread such as this and it eventually turns into an opinionated Apple bash fest. What short term memories we all must have. Go look at the initial IOS 7 release thread...and the IOS 6. They all eventually look the same. What everyone here doesn't get is that it is YOUR choice as to whether or not you update to the latest and greatest. I can sum up the bottom line here quite nicely. If you cannot handle the "bleeding edge" and suffer a coronary when you update and find out things don't work exactly how they should and your favorite apps are not updated yet, then updating your primary daily device is NOT for you. If however, you live for all things tech, and every unstable thing that comes with it, then I say go for it, because you know that there will be bugs, and things will be broken and you have mentally prepared yourself for that mine field when it comes along. I'm patiently waiting on IOS 7.1.2 watching this threat and taking notes. I will be patiently waiting for October 20th, when it is rumored that Apple will release 8.1. I will find out then what has been fixed and what remains broken and evaluate the decision in front of me once again. Then, I will have a choice like everyone else....whether or not to update or stay put and wait longer. Things work just fine on 7.1.2 for me. I mean what is the rush? What "thing" is so must have from IOS 8 that you have to have? Is it really worth sacrificing your primary device over it? You have not even had any of the "new stuff" in IOS 8 yet, so you don't even know what your missing. Can't it wait until you know the latest and greatest is going to work on your device, the way you need it to?You are accountable for your own actions. No one put a gun to your head and forced you to hit that update button, so if you did, look in the mirror, not at apple. Rome wasn't built in a day and every version of new software always has bugs. Here is my final tip. remember this feeling, for those of you who have updated and whish you would not have, and wait for every subsequent new IOS release from this point forward. Let the others who are truly comfortable updating, dealing with all the heartache, pain and hassel of a fresh new IOS release, do so. You can afford to sit patiently on the previous IOS version and wait to see what happens. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, especially when you rely on that primary device each and every day. -Andrew-

Very Well said, Andrew

I just had to applaud your comment here. It said, far mor articulately I might add, a lot of the things I've been thinking. I still consider myself a relative newbie in the land of IOS, but remember from twitter and this site that this same drama unfolds every year. My first, and only IOS device was my 5S, so my baptism into the world of IToys included that fun little screen sensitivity bug. I survived it, and within a month, it was fixed and all was well. I have every confidence that this will be true of this year's bugs as also, and as I've said, at least on my device, I have yet to encounter anything earthshatteringly terrible. If the keypad bug is a huge deal, one can simply use siri to dial. If the conflict between vo and siri is too much for you to deal with, simply disable vo when using siri. As I said in a previous post, these work-arounds are a pain, and in a perfect world, we shouldn't have to find work-arounds, but for those of you who weren't aware of the fact yet, this is not a perfect world.

I was exceptionally amused by this Blindgator person's post, because if they're a vetrin IPhone user as they claim and have been doing this since the 3GS days, then they should know the drill by now. It seems that with every IOS update, we VO users are in for a bumpy ride for a month or so, and then everything seems to smooth out and things start working as expected.

I was very nervous to update to IOS 8, but after reading the list of bugs that Applevis so thoughtfully provided, I decided I could handle the risk; only feature I was dying to use in IOS 8 was Alex, and in my case, the gamble was worth it. Of course some things are broken, but thanks to Applevis, I knew that before taking the plunge.

So, in closing, I'll go back to what Andrew said: nobody is forcing you to update. If you read the list of bugs and think they're too serious, then don't update yet. It really is that simple. You've been warned, and if you take the risk and update anyway, threatening a class action lawsuit against Apple is not the answer. Ranting, raving, cussing and carrying on is never the answer. Either be a part of the solution and report your concerns in a calm, professional manner, or come to this forum to discuss work-arounds to the problems you're experiencing. In any case, just ride the wave of bugginess out, and chances are, everything will be fine when a new update is released.

please remember to report bugs directly to apple not just here

Applevis is a great website, but it is not an APPLE website. Apple has pretty much nothing to do with anything that goes on here. For those that have not, please remember to call and email apple accessibility to report bugs that you find. The more of us combine our efforts, the more they have a reason and ability (more people reporting means more attention to it) to fix these issues.

we may not be majority, but we make them Billions

Just because we are a small part of the Apple community, it would be unfair to say we do not have a very important role in their bottom line. The fact is that Apple makes billions because the majority of blind consumers are now purchasing Apple products. There are a few million of us n the USA and more abroad.

Realistically, we make them Billions every year by buying their products and we do make up a good chunk of their yearly revenue (Say Two Billion Dollars). So why would we not have a say in trying to get things fixed

we are not an after thought, bugs get fixed, just takes time

To say we should sue them is irresponsible because Apple is making efforts to fix bugs as they come. Voiceover is not the only thing Apple is working on. There are general ios 8 bugs that need to be ironed out just as much as anything else.

You are justified in being frustrated, but stop to think that sometimes these bugs are not easy to find in the base code. It takes people time to find out what we are referencing and figure out solutions that do not impact the rest of the base code negatively. Bugs do get fixed, but it isn't always going to be immediate.

The more of us who take the time to unify our voice and report more and more of the same bugs, the more likely it will become noticed and fixed. This is ultimately a numbers game because Apple needs to know a certain amount of people are going through this before investing the time and money to focusing on it. The more of us who submit bug reports and call to ask for support, the more likely these bugs will be fixed faster.

This is not APPLE People. Different site

People, this is not an official site. It is place for accessibility to be discussed. Posting here does nothing other than inform other visually impaired individuals what you are going through. Posting here is not a bug report nor will it be seen by Apple. You must contact apple accessibility either by emailing or calling them. This is a great website, but posting bug reports here will not resolve the issues themselves.

Ridiculous!

This post has become way too much!
Was Apple wrong to release ios 8, Without a doubt! Very poor testing all around, not just accessibility.
Is Apple purposely trying to break Accessibility, No. Did they learn a lesson, im quite sure they have. Apple has experienced a lot of criticism with 8, bendgate, celebrity hack, the U2 album.
I guarantee they are working 24/7 for 8.1 release. I'm sure there are heads rolling. Be patient, its frustrating. It will be fixed...Apple didnt go out of its way to antagonize the accessibility community.
Please stop the tantrums and put the bigboy pants on and stop the lawsuit threats.

This happens every time an iOS version comes out

It never fails....every time an iOS version comes out, the same group of negative people spout the same stuff, and it's getting really old, really fast. Contrary to popular belief, millions use iOS and there are bugs. Here, Blindgator, here's a rattle. shall I get you a binky too? Stop! whining!

Apple Bashing!

I will continue to support Apple. They brought accessibility to the forefront.
However, where they are failing has nothing to do with accessibility. They are spreading themselves to thin with phone release, iOS release, OS release. Its too much with expectation. Not to mention, bugs are inevitable.
Personally i think they would do better rotating iOS and OS to every other year.
Im including a link to a story about why this is smart. The story also points out the major catastrophes Apple has had past few years, due to the yearly cycle.
I dont know about the rest of you. I prefer quality of software update, rather than quantity of them. Apple’s bad September and the dangers of yearly release cycles — Tech News and Analysis
https://gigaom.com/2014/10/05/apples-bad-september-and-the-dangers-of-ye...

iOS 8 on iPhone 6

I got an iPhone 6 last week and have only encountered a few of the bugs described in this article. I think the challenges with VO and Siri are the only bugs that I find especially frustrating. It seems I have a 50/50 chance of Siri either prompting me normally through the action or Siri going silent and me having to touch the screen to figure out which prompt she is at. As noted above, a triple-click home before and after issuing a Siri command is a workaround, but not a desirable one. I also did encounter the issue where you cannot share a photo via message -- the send button doesn't do anything. The best way to work through this is to find the Send button with VoiceOver on, lift your finger from the screen but keep it close to the surface and in the same exact position, turn VO off, single-tap to activate the Send button, and then turn VO back on. Again, not ideal but it works until we get a permanent fix.

For me, the new iPhone and iOS 8 is a dream come true, and overall it has been a very accessible and smooth experience. I am coming from an iPhone 4 where I ran iOS 5 until just a couple of weeks ago. At that point, I finally had to to update to iOS 7 because I couldn't update any of my apps anymore under iOS 5. Sure enough, this slowed down my iPhone significantly, but luckily for me the new iPhone 6 arrived a few days later. I guess the point here is, coming from an aging iPhone 4, I was used to waiting seconds at a time for pages to load, apps to update, and dealt with daily VoiceOver crashes and hiccups. By contrast, the iPhone 6 is very powerful, immediate and comfortable to use, and VoiceOver runs like a champ.

I'm new to this forum but I am so glad I discovered it. Thanks

back to the bugs

My dear people, I am glad it's not only I who am disgusted when people threaten litigation and other such nonsense. For the record, however, a class action for fraudulent misrepresentation would fail miserably, either in contract or in tort. If anyone wants me to write an opinion on why it would fail I would be delighted to do so, but you will have to pay for it. That's the problem with launching hopeless litigaiton as well, you see. You have to pay for it. Suffice to say that I am delighted that in England we have serious restrictions on such actions making it very difficult to bring one.

Anyhow, back to the topic! I apologise if folks have mentioned this already, but has anyone else noticed that the Voiceover cursor doesn't always mirror the screen cursor when you swipe through items? If, for example, I tap on a mail attachment that I've swiped to using Voiceover, it won't necessarily open and the only answer is to physically find the item on the screen and tap on it. This is actually really difficult sometimes, especially in messages with multiple attachments. I've also found similar problems in other apps e.g. the british Airways app with its online check-in process. This is perhaps the most annoying bug I've come across and I wondered whether anyone had a more useful solution to offer than I've offered here?

Let me say in general that I really like IOS8! The braille screen input really does work well, folks, so just persevere with it. Dot calibration really will solve many problems you chaps are experiencing I think, and remember also that you have to keep the phone still so Braille won't work as well if you try and use it when, for example, you're travelling. As for blind consumers sitting back and taking it, I don't think anyone can accuse us of that. This thread indicates quite the opposite! For my part, I'm ready to give Apple a bit of tolerance on this one and hope the various issues we've mentioned will be sorted out.

That will be the auto-scroll bug

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

Bingo, the problem that you are encountering is due to the bug where the page doesn’t auto-scroll to follow the movement of VoiceOver focus as you swipe. As a result, focus can move beyond what is actually being visually displayed on the screen. If focus lands on an actionable element or control whilst off-screen, the normal gesture will typically not work This is a particularly frustrating and widespread bug. It was actually listed at in the list of bugs at the start of this thread.

As far as I am aware, the only workaround at the moment is to locate the item by touch and then double-tap on it. Unfortunately, this can require a lot of 3-fingered swiping to get the desired control visually onto the screen in the first place.

That's the chap

Yes, looking back at the beginning of this thread it is indeed listed there. Apologies for not reading more carefully. I do hope they sort this out because from my point of view it's by far and away the most annoying issue I've ever come across and there have been occasions where I simply haven't been able to find the attachment I'm looking for. I should probably also add that my name isn't brian. but then, neither is it Bingo so I suppose that was always a hostage to fortune.

general focus bug

I'm noticing a particularly nasty focus bug in theBARD mobile app as well, you have to swipe up with 3 fingers a few times to get the edit box where you search for a book to take focus. Also, you can not use a Bluetooth keyboard, you have to use the on-screen keyboard. Keep in mind the above aren't complaints by any means, they're simply things I've noticed. I'm not sure if that is a VoiceOver bug, or something in iOS 8, but the way I work around it is to log into BARD on the pc and add books to my wishlist and download them to the phone afterwords. So yeah, there are bugs but there are also workarounds... I know it is very frustrating, but you have to get on as best as you can.

my thoughts about all this.

Okay, here are my thoughts. First of all, I updated my IPod to IOS eight when 8.02 came out. Is it a pain? Sure it is, with all the bugs like voiceover crashing, Etc. do I regret updating? No, I do not. Are the bugs so significant that suing is the way to go? Absolutely not! Honestly what is suing going to do for us? Only make apple resentful of us. Not only that but you’ll be laughed right out of the courts! You know, they did not have to do anything to fix any bugs at all. Do you all remember when IOS seven came out? Weren’t there a lot of bugs then? Did apple fix the major ones? Yes they did. Are there still bugs now? Sure! My phone is still running seven, and there are a few bugs here and there. Honestly people, this give it to me now attitude must stop if we are going to get anything resolved.

Ain't You a "Blindy" Too?

Seems to me your snide remarks have no place in this forum. The gentleman has as much right to complain as you do to diss him.

I shall say no more except to observe that this sort of boorishness has no place in such a valuable forum as this.

I agree that updating is

I agree that updating is voluntary. And yes, as time goes by, many bugs are squashed.

that being said, I see no harm in observing that the programming industry in general (including Apple) is growing sloppier and sloppier about thoroughly testing updates before releasing them, preferring bling and novelty to rigorous, careful testing -- and I'm talking about programming both for both blind and sighted users, making users effectively beta-testers -- sorta like GM.

Having said this, however, I think that we should acknowledge the pressures of the marketplace and admit that a small market such as ours is not as likely to get quick attention to our troubles as is a large market -- the sighted.

So let's chill out here and realize that all points of view being expressed in this thread have some merit (including the necessity occasionally for lawsuits -- though I confess to wondering what statute could be used since an I-device is not a program or service or place of public accommodation).

Cheers!

that's what we're all saying

Maybe it wasn't stated in the most polite way, but I think that a vast majority of people agree that a lawsuit, be it class action or otherwise is quite definitely not the way to go. I don't see millions of blind iOS users constantly having problems and I don't see people's lives vastly effected by the bugs. They're a pain in the behind, but lots of other stuff is too, and you don't see people suing everyone just because someone screwed up your day. These are annoyances, people, not show sstoppers. and the world, sighted or otherwise owes you absolutely nothing. you chose to buy the Apple product, you chose to update to iOS 8 knowing bugs were present, so with that you take the responsibility of those actions. Deal with it and wait for the next update.

IOS8 issues on iPad2

Upon installation of iOS8 on my iPad2 it crashed and I ended up restoring to factory settings and restoring the backup. Then a week later I turned on VoiceOver and it would not turn back to off. It was having all kinds of issues and when I tried to enter my password a few minutes later VoiceOver is not relaying the passcode correctly and starts locking up the iPad for 60 minutes. Once I was able to get in and I tried to turn off VoiceOver but the darn switch is stuck in the "ON" position. I disabled and disconnected the iPad from iCloud. It turned back on after a few hours with the message "This IPad is Disabled, connect to iTunes" Then when it is connected to iTunes it says, turn off the "Find Me in IPad before restoring." I obviously can't turn off "Find My IPad if the iPad is disabled. It's not allowing me to restore, which is the only choice because VoiceOver is stuck and will not turn off. I removed the iPad on the iCloud so it is no longer linked with Find My iPhone..... There are more bugs on iOS8 that are unknown and discovered. Once I get this fixed, I'm getting rid of this iPad.

Good!

Hi,
Unfortunately, the older devices don't handle iOs 8 well at all. It's mainly the older processor that these devices use. It's like the device can't keep up with the demands put onto the processor.

IOS 8 not as bad as I feared

Hello again! Earlier in this thread I posted the reasons why I didn't want to put IOS 8 on my iPhone 4S, but, at the time of writing my current comment, I have had an iPhone 6 for about twenty-four hours, and I can now say that IOS 8, or actually IOS 8.0.2 which I updated to yesterday, is nowhere near as bad as I thought it might be. It probably helps that I have followed this post right from the start so I had prior warning about all the bugs, even though, having not used IOS 8 for very long yet, I have not encountered all of them. When VoiceOver suddenly stops talking, touching the screen often brings it back, and it never stays silent for long anyway. Changing the time on my iPhone 6 to the 12-hour clock has got rid of the bug which makes VO not read the hourly weather forecasts properly: the first time I opened the weather app on my iPhone 6, it didn't read any weather at all for a while, but I think it simply needed time to load the forecast, which is much more detailed than it used to be. The worst bug I've come across is not being able to pair either of my bluetooth devices, a headset and a keyboard with my iPhone 6: at the time of writing, I can't be sure whether bluetooth is broken in IOS 8.0.2 for me, or whether it's simply due to my two bluetooth devices being about two years old, as someone told me today that some older bluetooth devices can only be paired with one other device, something I didn't know before, so I didn't think of unpairing the headset and the keyboard from the iPhone 4S before erasing its contents and trading it in for the new iPhone. Thankfully, I can deal with all the IOS 8 bugs I've encountered so far, and I certainly wouldn't consider suing Apple because of such bugs. After all, no operating system is absolutely perfect, although I can understand people's disappointment and frustration, and I hope that bug fixes are on the way in future IOS updates.

Here is a new one for you all.

It has been found that on the certain devices, especially the iPhone 5s.there is a problem where downloads can stay without completing. It just says cancel download without any percentages showing. This happens to me and the people at Apple had to downgrade my phone to I OS 8. If you have a 5S you may update to I OS 8.2 and run into this problem if you do you'll have to have your phone downgraded.they know and there is a fix for this issue on the way, it is a very small issue and only happened to a small percentage of users unfortunately I was one of them.

Notifications problem

I forgot to mention one bug in my previous comment which I have encountered in IOS 8.0.2, and I wonder if anyone else has had it: since I got my iPhone 6, notifications are appearing on the locked screen as they should, but I'm not getting any sounds for them. In my Notifications settings, sounds are among the options I chose, and those options remain as they were before I changed my phone, so this is a strange one. I have a theory as to why this has happened, it's possible that the backup I restored from was done when my old iPhone was set to Do Not Disturb, which could possibly have muted the notifications sounds, but the iPhone 6 wasn't set to Do Not Disturb after the retrieval of my apps and settings and so on, which I suppose would have been the case if the original backup was done in that mode, so I don't think my theory is a very good one: I can also tell you that my iPhone 6 is definitely not muted. If someone else can guess why I have this problem with notification sounds, please let me know. Like the other bugs I've reported, this one doesn't spoil my use of IOS 8, I only mention it here in case anyone else has come across it;

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