We periodically review the guidelines that we ask members of our community to respect in their use of the AppleVis website. This involves evaluating whether existing guidelines remain necessary and appropriate; are in the best interests of our community; and that they also reflect the current wishes of the majority of our community.
With public betas for iOS 16, iPadOS 16, macOS Ventura, tvOS 16, HomePod software version 16, and watchOS 9 coming soon, we decided that it was timely for us to review our guidelines covering the discussion of beta and preview versions of Apple software.
When we first created these guidelines there was a very strong belief in our community that no discussion of pre-release Apple software should be allowed. However, the landscape and attitudes have changed over subsequent years. Apple's introduction of its Beta Software Program has been a significant driver for these changes.
We have previously amended our guidelines to reflect the changing landscape and attitudes. We have decided that they once again need to be amended.
Our new guidelines regarding the discussion of beta or preview versions of Apple software now only prohibit discussion of illegal use or distribution of pre-release software. This means that discussion of bugs or fixes in beta releases and technical support with pre-release software are now permitted.
In conjunction with the change to our guidelines, we have created a new “Apple Beta Releases“ section in the site forum where we ask that all discussion of this nature now take place.
What we want to stress is the continued importance of reporting bugs to Apple. The process is quick and straightforward via the Feedback Assistant that will be installed automatically on your device when running a beta or preview release, and doing so ensures that Apple has all of the information needed to reproduce the issue that you are encountering. This makes it far more likely that there will be a timely fix. Posting on AppleVis about bugs in beta releases is never going to achieve this.
We acknowledge that there will likely be a mix of reactions to the change to our guidelines. From those who will say that it should have happened long ago, to those who believe that it's a wrong decision. All that we can ask is that you recognize that decisions of this nature are never taken lightly. They are also only ever made with the interests and wishes of our community in mind. Remember, all of the AppleVis Editorial Team are members of this community themselves. Consequently, we only ever want what is best for our community.
We believe that the changes to the guidelines set out above are necessary, appropriate, and match the wishes of the vast majority of our community.
We look forward to reading and participating in this new section of the forum. We hope that you will too.
About time. Those who use Youtube can check the many updates regarding beta and what is new but they do not foucsfocus on accessibility. They talk about battery use, bugs and what is new. Glad that AppleVis got with the time.
I think this was a really good idea, partly because of what Holger said. There are many mainstream sites, even really large respected ones which cover iOS betas. From an accessibility point of view the discussion is really scattered and seems to mainly take place on Twitter if you're following the right people. Also, even if Apple's GAAD press releases did give us a glimpse at what's new there's often a lot more than what they say. Nothing illustrates this more than Eloquence this year, but also some very welcome changes like indentation reporting on Mac or iOS quick settings last year which didn't get a public mention. SO having a central place to discuss these, as well as any bugs that inevitably crop up during the beta cycle before they get patched out for the final release is really great.
Also while I'm talking about bugs I can't stress enough that people shouldn't judge iOS 16 or any other Apple software by any issues that might get mentioned during the beta cycle. The betas are there for features to be refined and fixed over time. For example, between Beta 1 and Beta 3 now the Eloquence support got refined multiple times from the way it worked initially and it's almost certainly going to get changed even more before the final stable releases.
I want to take this opportunity to extend a huge thanks to this amazing team for these changes. I’ve been a beta tester for a few years now, and have really enjoyed it. I began beta testing, when you guys had a dedicated team for this, that was suddenly disbanded. I’ve always been curious why this team went away. Can anyone tell me?
I really miss it.
When I saw this subject, I thought, oh no, yet another thing that will get even stricter, like everything else seems to. Then I read the post and was very pleasantly surprised. There are more features than ever that I am interested in this year, to the point where I am actually going to use an old iPhone to partake in the beta myself when it's public. It looks like potentially the best release for us n years, and this increased opportunity for us to help get it right can only be a good thing. Thank you very much.
I would like to extend my gratitude towards this change.
As many have said before me, many mainstream websites cover bugs in existing betas, and I believe accessibility bugs deserve exactly the same attention, which will hopefully make them even more likely to be fixed.
I don't want this post to be taken as not appreciating the testing Applevis team is doing and their very detailed submitting of every bug report, however, sometimes there might be very specific issues worth highlighting even further, for example the team might not speak a certain language so can't know about issues to a specific voice, may not use a specific feature, and things like that.
Fortunately, and this also deserves praising, I have to say that the Apple accessibility team was very responsive during this beta period. I can't imagine the amount of feedback they had to deal with as a relatively small team, but despite that, I have reported an issue specific to the Croatian voice I am using and which was added in iOS 16, and within one update, it was already fixed, and I think that's also worth highlighting, since it was a very specific language, and not too many people in this region use betas, meaning that despite the no doubt very small number of reports they have received about it, it was prioritized appropriately and dealt with.
As a conclusion, thanks once again for this welcome change, and I certainly hope that doesn't change the relations AppleVis has with the Apple team, but on the contrary, strengthens them even further, showing the dedication of our community both in willing to test betas, and accurately report bugs and test to see if they are fixed in every new update.
This is long over do in my opinion. That really doesn't matter in the grand skeem of things. What does matter is you got it right.
being able to navagate via headings in the new forum
Will this be possible in the near future so I can currently go by heading to see the different titles of the posts it makes it the only forum you can't yet do this is the new one. just pointing it out in case it was missed.
Re: being able to navigate via headings in the new forum
The new section of the forum is structured and behaves the same as the other sections. I don't recall ever having it presented so that topic titles were at a heading level. It's something that I will consider though.
thank you for considering this
This would make it quicker to go through the topics.
this is excellent, thank you for listening to us
Just adding my voice here... I agree the beta should be spoken about but I'm actually more delighted that you listened to the community and acted. In one of my, well, let's call a spade a spade, one of my rants, I spoke about the feeling of not being heard. This, in light of that, is a refreshing and delightful change.
thank you for policing this Wild West of geeks with such aplomb.
This is a good thing.
I'm not on the beta but am very glad people can talk about it.
Thanks! Thanks! Thanks!
As a reminder, many people from Apple have indicated that they do not come here to look for bugs. So no matter how much attention you give to a bug here, if you don't report it to Apple, they will not investigate. There are plenty of posts here on Applevis that discuss how to report bugs to Apple.
The iOS beta subreddit, which is a mainstream version of what Applevis just started here has a bot that comments on every new topic with a reminder to report bugs in the feedback app if you want them to be fixed.
On that note something I heard about on twitter is that if you're reporting accessibility bugs with parts of the system that aren't VoiceOver itself, proceeding your feedback title with "AX:" will flag it for the appropriate people faster.
I look forward to using this
I'm going to be focusing a lot on the Mac OS 13 public beta and sending bugs through the feedback assistant once it's released. My M1 Mac Mini patiently awaits with a separate partition ready and willing. I'm glad to see these guidelines change to allow for discussion of such topics.
Thank you very much, Applevis
Thank you very much Applevis for deciding to allow this content. I find the release notes for new beta releases to be worse than useless, and to know that I can quickly dive on here to check what might be in store will be a big help. the new forum will enable us to compare notes and see if something on our device is a one-off or if it's happening to others too. I actually believe working with each other in this way might yield new or different information on bugs or features than is being fed back already. I look forward to reading what comes of this new area of content.
Thank you again!
I'm so glad this change was made.
I agree with not being able to talk about getting them illegally. I am a developer but I haven't actually installed the beta yet just because I don't have an extra device but I'm glad I can read about all the changes.
I agree fully with the headings comment above. Navigation with you I think it would be much faster. Furthermore great change with the Apple bit of stuff. I really really really agree.
Thank you so much for these changes!
I've always felt it unfair that one can find out about any new features on YouTube regarding mainstream features, but nothing at all about accessibility, particularly Voiceover. I'm very happy for these changes, which puts us on a more level playing field.
public betas are here!
If you're not a developer, but are eager to try out the new betas, I’m delighted to anounce that the public betas are here!
To get started, simply visit beta.apple.com, sign in, & download the appropriate profile for your device.