Let's be honest about upgrade accessibility

I've been using apple products for almost 10 years, and never skiped or delayed an update, major or minor, intentionally.
That said, yes, sometimes new accessibility bugs appear, but in my opinion, nothing as that makes the device unusable.
Moreover, some people that complains about latest updates and believe Apple is doing it worse every year, possibly don't remember, or never experienced, some really anoying bugs we dealed with on legacy versions of iOS. An example? VOICEOVER focus jumping around the screen like crazy, or updates that made voiceover unresponsive, etc.
So, believe me, updates are not getting worse, in my opinion they are much more stable than 2 or 3 years ago"

I agree that the updates to Apple software have improved rather than getting worse. I do not expect perfection, and they are getting better. Remember the problems with version 13? There is no comparison between that and 14.5. And, based on your lack of upgrading, you have no leg to stand on. Also, as my subject line asks, well, I'd like your thoughts on that as well. Thanks.

I'm having nothing but good experiences with iOs 14. I can't really tell you about mac os 11, but yeah my experiences with iOs have been nothing but Steller. I'm a beta tester and I can say the experience for me has been very stable. I'm quite happy with it.

First of all, yes, yes, no, worse.

Sometimes you are just forced to upgrade, either do to security issues or the fact that you need one thing fixed that is severely broken. The Braille scrolling issue in 14.4 was that one for me.

Often the new versions bring new bugs, but it is the only way to get some of the old huge issues fixed. I'd switch to Android, but I expect the experience would be worse.
I don't have much trouble with Microsoft, a good screen reader manufacturer usually manages to plaster over the worst of the cracks. I was never left unable to read books, in Braille, for example.

I haven't had any show-stopping experiences with iOS 14. Bugs are a part of life, but I think that Apple have a good track record on fixing them and a good track record on a11y in general. I don't believe making a generalised complaint is going to solve anything. Just my $0.02.

Malthe

I suppose I must be a very lucky guy because I am not experiencing any of the issues you mentioned, Bruce.
My experience has been great with iOS and Mac OS.
Usually, I'd rather find out by myself if things are so bad as people say rather than just going by what they say.
There will always be bugs. That is normal. After all, it is a part of life. There will always be issues here and there but none have rendered my device unusable. I agree with those who have said that, in their experience, updates have been better than what they used to be two or three years ago.
In my opinion, things are looking good. I feel for those who've had or are having problems with, for example, there braille displays.
I am not a braille display user so there is not much I can say about it. All I know is that, thank God, I am not having any issues with either my iPhone or my Mac.

I'm on the beta releases, and the accessibility bugs are rarely serious. They don't completely brake my experience. compared to a lot of companies, that's a lot better.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Unchanged.

I have been burned so badly in the past for upgrading that I COMPLETELY skipped all upgrades to version 12 of iOS.

I've had my iPhone since September 2018 and I have not had any significant problems with it. When I didn't know something, I asked, and the advice I got usually solved the problem. I have nothing but good things to say about Apple and the accessibility they've incorporated into the product I'm using. I have read posts from years ago on this site and I have read about nightmares from people who seemed to know what they were doing, i.e. they were good at finding solutions instead of just complaining, and I compare that with what I have now, and am very grateful I got my iPhone when I did. I can't see what you're complaining about. If you don't want to update, that's fine, but when things no longer work anymore, it's on you and not Apple.

With all due respect, this is exactly the reason why Apple probably doesn't do anything to fix the issues encountered, because so many of you are not willing to come to a CTA plan. I for one am very glad this post was made up here, and will very gladly post my answers.

1. I do not trust major Apple IOS and/or MacOS upgrades because of the accessibility problems they too often create:

yes

2. I have regretted upgrading:

yes: Bigtime!

3. I have decided to avoid major upgrades until after the major accessibility bugs they create have been resolved:

No

4. As a result of the accessibility problems major IOS and/or MacOS upgrades have caused, my opinion of Apple has changed for the:

Worse

Wow, look at the responses. It's either hot or cold. "No problem" or "right on, this is crap". I'd be interested in knowing why.

My suspicion is that the people who are really inconvenienced by new breakages are people who have work to do, projects to complete, and tasks to perform. Their device is a tool, and any new breakage is a major interruption to their workflow.

For people who approach their devices more as a luxury or toy, perhaps it's not such a big deal if an update causes them to spend hours researching the new way to do what they can no longer accomplish. To them, it's all fun.

Just speculating out loud.

Speculating does nothing but fuel the fire. I am in no way disputing that some have bugs I do not. Yet, I also think the original poster has a flaw. They chose not to update. It's up to them, no one is holding a gun to their head. However then they have issues that come up. maybe five hundred people have them, maybe just them. Yet, they are blaming a company in which has some fault but we also do not know a lot. Do we know how many testers are blind or low vision working there? do we know if at all, Voice Over and Zoom and other accessibility features are being tested on anyone but sighted co-workers? Do we know of anything on the internal cycle that signifies that the bugs are being addressed in the manner they should be? The answer to all of the above is a resounding, no. We don't know how many people are visually impaired working on the internal testing. From others' posts they who have quite a bit of knowledge keep pushing bugs to the forefront only to be let down by the next release. Finally, what did you expect? Did you expect others to jump on the let's get Apple to fix this?! Because I see it pretty easily. If you don't update, take what comes. If you do and dislike it, there is another accessible alternative. If you choose to put up with Apple's lack of improvement, then it's on you. Note that I am suspecting a lot of the problems are because apple has so many new OS that they don't QC much or quality control or quality assure. either way, If this really needs to be addressed, then make sure it's written in a more cohesive manner. I would never show an apple tech this site. Between language barriers and poorly drafted responses, it's a wonder Apple accessibility doesn't send more than form letters.

Upgrades sometimes bring new bugs as well as improvements. I've been lucky with Apple products: the bugs generally haven't been serious - no more so than the accessibility bugs you'll find elsewhere. I think I am a fairly demanding user of all my devices, so the "using it as a toy" explanation doesn't hold.

I've encountered significant accessibility bugs on every operating system that I've seriously used in the last decade: Linux, Mac OS, iOS/iPadOS, Android, and Microsoft Windows - to mention them in no particular order. In short, it's a problem everywhere. It never discourages me from upgrading. Solutions are needed, but the issue goes well beyond any particular company. Whose bugs are worse is so dependent on a person's individual needs and use cases that it's hard to give a general answer.

Frankly I'm not having any issues, and any issues I reported during beta have gone away. it is now to my knowledge 100 percent stable. Now, I don't use a braille display or large text or what not, but it works quite well, at least the voiceover part does.

Hello:
I have tried to go to Facebook Live but I am not successful. The only way I could get it is to have a sighted friend click on the icon after I have disabled Voiceover. I cannot get Facebook Live with Voiceover enabled. Does anyone have a different experience?
Larry

IOS is far ahead of android. If you use Braille or a physical keyboard for your way of interacting with the phone stay on iOS! IS iOS perfect no. I will say iOS 14 and particularly 14.5 is awesome.

My iPhone is definitely not a luxury and I don't treat it like a toy. There's a lot to be said for researching a problem, and keeping systems up to date. A lot of the problems people are having are strictly due to the developers of apps not conforming to Apple's standards. Sure, Apple has goofed up, and sometimes it's big time, but they usually fix it. If you keep your OS behind, it's definitely not going to work.

I agree with this. The biggest thing we can do is push app developers to fix their apps. an example of this is Pluto TV.

Everything on both my devices is working well for me here. I just installed the latest updates. I'm honestly rather amused by the Mac's double-speaking, but if Apple have the time and resources to fix this then I think that'll be good. I do have one question though, which some of you might be asking too. That is, why all the updates in such rapid succession? The only reason I ask is that a sister of mine needs a lot of help especially with her iPhone, and I'm not always there to help her because I live in a separate building. She has a tutor, but the tutor is not a VoiceOver user. I fully recognize that Apple is a big company with a lot on their plate, but am just a bit curious about this.

Agreed there. I'd rather have a lot of updates that fix the security issues right now.

As for IPhone and IPad, yes there are bugs and accessibility issues, but I don't regret upgrading, I always read the posts on here first about experiences before upgrading and decide from there. If I have an issue that is show stopping, I try to roll back when I allowed. What I do have a problem with however is apple tv. The accessibility in apple tv has gone down the tube since tv os11 and got even worse in major tv os upgrades after that. It is to the point that I don't even use apple tv anymore. I mean who has time to quad tap this, tripple tap that, turn the rotor every wich way, etc. That's what the apple tv has become. It use to be very easy to use like the IPad and IPhone, not sure what happened there. I know some will disagree with what I'm about to say and that's fine but I find the accessibility on the firestick is much better. My apple tv is just a paperweight now as far as I'm concerned.
As for mac and the apple watch I don't have one so can't speak on that.

I did do the upgrade and I don't find many accessibiilty bugs with the applications I use on an everyday the last I had challenges was updating the birthday of my contacts on the phone app. however, I feel that was caused because I was using Google contacts on my IOS device and the both are not working well with each other. I regret to inform you that I miss the Favourites/ VIP contacts on the today view we could swipe right with 3 fingers and navigate to the Favorites heading and call the contact with much ease. Today I am wondering the only use of the VIP contacts is that they can call you even if DND is on. They need to really think such things over!

I never hold back on getting an update. usually, the good far outweighs the bad for me. I do wish Apple would somehow make certain that the basics work for Braille users before releasing an update. That should also be true in general but hasn't always been. In iOS13, answerring a phone call would result in VoiceOver no longer speaking once you hung up. It took far longer than I hoped for them to fix that. For me, this was manageable due to the accessibility shortcut which I knew enough to set. However, I cringed at the thought of blind beginners encountering this.
The Braille scrolling bug basically sidelined my Braille display for a couple of months before it was finally fixed in 14.5. I thanked my lucky stars I am primarily a speech and touchscreen user. Braille is a much appreciated secondary option for me when it's working right.
I don't think we'll get to a point where these problems simply don't happen anymore. We're too small a piece of the overall picture for that. Especially for beginners, it's a good idea to read the Applevis notes on new iOS updates before upgrading. Apple combines so many things into these updates that one really can't hold off updating very long. Also, many have their updates set to automatic and will wake up one morning to find new conditions awaiting them.
Honestly, I think a VoiceOver tutorial plus a guide to the basics of iOS from a blindness perspective would go a long way to addressing many of the problems blind users run into. I don't think an iPHONE is thoughT of as a toy by many users. I'm on social assistance and it was a pretty expensive but very worth-while investment. My iPHOnE is doing duty as my personal computer as well as being a phone. I do all my writing on it as well as reading. Because of it, I've been able to help many people in many ways and be more engaged with my community. It has also helped me do a lot independently or with sighted help via the camera from a distance.

I get up each morning with some idea of what I want to accomplish on my Mac.

If I know I'm going to try a new app or website I've never been to before, then I can pretty much expect I'll encounter hurdles and roadblocks that stem entirely from accessibility issues. There will be a learning curve. Worst case, what I want to do might not be possible at all.

When I update, whether it's a new OS release, new version of an app, or a rollout of a website redesign, I think it's fair to expect accessibility improvements, not regressions. But lately I've come to expect regressions. Old ways I used to do things no longer work after an update. I need to figure out what broke and spend my day finding new ways to do what I used to.

If I didn't already have an agenda on my plate, this wouldn't be an issue. I'd roll with the changes.

Why do the regressions occur? I think we commonly believe that we're such a niche group that we can't possibly expect Apple to fully test our corner-case usage. But lately I've come to think there's more to it than that. I don't believe Apple can know when their changes cause a breakage because they don't know what use cases we've invented with the tools they provide.

For example, we have VoiceOver, and we also have Invert Colors. I don't think they would ever expect someone - like me - to always have VoiceOver enabled, but occasionally scroll through a web page of visual content and toggle Invert Colors as needed. This is a use case that I've used quite frequently as my eyesight continues to decline, but now with Mac OS 11, it's no longer possible. They never tested it because they never imagined anyone would use these features in such a combination.

Well I've rambled long enough.

Hi all,
Well, I agree that bugs are never fixed.
There is a bug that exists since iOs 10.3, it's a bug when russian enhanced voices cannot read capital letters as they should.
To fix this issue you have to switch to compact voices. Siri voices also have that issue.
It's annoying!
155 letters were written to Apple Accessibility, I got lots of letters that they are investigating this issue, but it isn't fixed!
And about MacOS,
I tried to use it for coding tasks, it is really difficult
The process is really slow, keeping in mind that we use nuance voices.
There is no speech synthesizer like eSpeak that supports lots of languages, so we always have to switch from russian to English to be able to read code and other things.
So I switched from Mac to windows. I tried to switch to android but I couldn't.
Well, I still believe that the bug with iOs and capital letters will be fixed.
The funniest thing that there is no such issue with russian voices on Mac!

this bug still isn't fixed, where you erase with a braille display or the orbit writer and characters aren't read out when keyboard is set to say nothing when typing. this has been a bug for 3 years. Please report it if you can.

It will be interesting to see how universal control work with VO. Right now can not get VO to switch from my watch and iPhone when I use my airpod pro. Also the feature that help you focus on a number in a picture to call. VO does not do a great job describing things in photos.

Hi all.
I ran an update for 14.6 on my iPhone SA, which I’m using now, and was unable to read anything in the email app. VoiceOver wouldn’t even focus on the screen, all it will do was read the status bar. When I rang the same update on an iPhone X, it worked flawlessly, so far as I know. Having re-set the essay, I’m now left with a curious situation that the browse the menu on Edge won’t read to me at all.
I’m not sure what’s been fixed or broken but some it’s pretty rough.
That’s my comment for what it’s worth, and about the second or third time in 10 years I’ve had serious problems with an update from Apple.
Thanks for reading, Mark.

I've been using apple since September 2018, and I think the updates are pretty good. I look at the old posts on here and I cringe, and thank God I never had to use those systems. Any software has bugs, it's just the way it is, and a lot of the problems I read about, I don't have them and jneither do my friends who also use IOS.

If you are waiting for bug free software you will wait for a while. It will never happen.

I have been a beta tester of iOS for several years. I've watched iOS 15 go from beta 1 to where it is now and believe me, many bugs have been fixed. No piece of software will ever be completely bug free. It doesn't matter what platform you use. It's just like everything else in life nothing is perfect. I'm extremely happy that I've upgraded to iOS 15. Having said that, there are some things that frustrate me. I will continue to bring them to Apple's attention and that is what we all need to do. I have always upgraded right a way when a new release comes out. I can't think of a time when I've ever regretted doing that. I'm not really trying to criticize this post I'm only trying to say that there have been many improvements since beta 1 of iOS 15. Maybe bugs aren't being squashed as quickly as we may like, but each version is getting better and better.

I have been using an iPhone since IOS 12, and I well remember the days of IOS 13. Anything has to be better than that, unless there were worse earlier versions. Personally, I love the current upgrade, despite its foibles. Voiceover isn't lagging, the focus goes where you want it to go, and a lot of settings are easier to understand, with more flexibility. I have to agree that this post is very negative. Nothing is going to be perfect, it just won't. My advice is to take the good, let the bad go. Report bugs to Apple and eventually they will fix it, maybe not in the time we would like, but they usually fix them.

Hey,
I appreciate you taking a poll on this. Apple needs to know the impact of some of these bugs. I say yes to all three. As far as my opinion of apple, it's unchanged. While using speech, voiceover works fairly well under IOS 15 on ipad. I’m hesitant to upgrade my phone because it's my primary device. Some of the bugs such as voiceover not being responsive after a call and the recent calls bug are complete showstoppers. The way I see it is that everybody’s experience is different. Like the saying goes, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I also think luck has a little something to do with it. People who are unhappy with IOS have just as much right to an opinion as those who are satisfied. My biggest gripe is the less than stellar braille support. I know braille users among us are few and far between, but that's no excuse for putting it on the back burner. I’ve emailed accessibility since IOS 11 and was pretty much ignored. In braille's current state, I cannot recommend an ipad with braille display for the students I Will with. I contemplated starting a petition or something so apple could see the impact these braille bugs have, but I wasn’t sure about it. I thought your poll would be a good avenue to express our thought on braille. Maybe, could you add a question like the following: Do you feel that the braille experience on mac/IOS has gotten better, worse, or unchanged. Would love to hear what you think.