My review, why I returned to iOS from Android

Okay, I'll bite. I'll add my own constraints to this though. First, no CSR. No Commentary screen reader, just TalkBack. Second, the user has their sound mode set to sound, not vibrate or off. Third, this is with production software and hardware. No betas, no "well this will work in the next release" or anything. Fourth, no workarounds. No muting TalkBack, no turning off TalkBack to tap around the screen, nothing. Now, let's go!

1. A user has just gotten their NLS EReader Braille display. It's the Humanware model, and they want to use it to read and write on their Android phone now, after downloading some BARD books of course. So, they put their EReader in pairing mode, go to the Braille part of TalkBack settings, and try to scan for devices. But oh no, it's not there. Okay, I'll give a little and let's fast forward to like this fall, or next year in the case of Samsung phones cause Samsung's TalkBack is almost 6 months behind Google's. So the user pulls out their Samsung phone and tries to connect again, since they now have TalkBack 14. But oh no, it still doesn't work! Frustrated, they contact Google a11y support, who tells them they need to connect the EReader over USB. On their iPhone, a message dings. They connect to the iPhone with their EReader over Bluetooth, open the notification, and respond to the message.

Now, this is not some device that is just beginning production. This is a device that is in 40 of the 50 states of the US. This is a device that has been out since at least 2021. Now, Google should have been having this device. Google should have *been* supporting HID Braille. There is no excuse for this.

2. Talking to the Google Assistant without TalkBack talking over you. So the user puts away their NLS EReader. "Bah, I don't need Braille anyway," they say to themselves. "It just slows me down." So, they zoom around the Android interface with TalkBack commands, enjoying how snappy everything is. And then they want Google to open an app for them, since that takes a little more work to find an app. So, they hold down the home button, and TalkBack says "Assistant, tap to dismiss assistant." Meanwhile, the assistant is listening, and the user has lost track of what they were saying. So they try again, this time using "Hey Google." Still, TalkBack talks over them. Sighing, they leave the assistant alone and just go to the quick settings, find the search button, and type in a few letters of what they're looking for.

This is pretty bad. Even if you're using Samsung's TalkBack, you should be able to use Google Assistant without the screen reader talking over you. This is a testament as to how limited Google's accessibility framework is. Google, it appears, cannot even have its screen reader be quiet during an interaction. I remember when VoiceOver tried to describe an image while people were talking to Siri, people were quite rightly outraged. But when Google has the same issue? Oh just mute TalkBack, be a real Android fan! What? You can't take a bug here and there? You must just be too much of a Sheeple, you Apple sympathizer! Go back to your iPhone and think about what you've said! Now, onto the third one.

3. Image descriptions. So the user, resigned to doing everything manually, opens an app. They find a post from someone with a picture. The picture is unlabeled. They heard in TalkBack's tutorial about Lookout, and already installed it. So they hoped they could share the image to Lookout. They could not. There was no "more" or "share" button on the image. Feeling scourn and disgust, they pulled out their iPhone, opened the same app, found the image, and after hovering over the image for a second, VoiceOver described it to the best of its ability. The user then packed up the Android, sold it, and bought a pair of AirPods.

This one shows that Google just isn't an AI company. They've failed to show any promise in this area, through accessibility or otherwise. Just now, TalkBack includes icon description capabilities. VoiceOver can describe complete images. Google seems to think that their a11y ai junk should be in another app altogether. So users have to share an image with Lookout, if the share option is available, and have that app describe the image instead. Meanwhile, Apple's accessibility team have correctly figured out that, oh my actual gosh, people want the image described right there, not needing to send it out to another app.

And like I said above, I love Android. I love how snappy TalkBack is on my Galaxy S20 FE 5G with Snapdragon 865, 128 GB storage and 6 GB RAM through RAM Plus. But I hate how behind Google is accessibility-wise. I've used my phone for a year. Six months of that was nothing but Android. So I know just about everything about it. The workarounds that are always needed. Oh hey y'all, did y'all know we have to turn on the thing where your assistant gives you greater details and doesn't think you can see the screen? Except those switches don't tell us if they're on or off? Pretty darn bad.

1. Is this EReader I keep hearing about the product that amounts to the brailliant BI20X if you're anywhere other than in the US? and why in only 40 of the 50 states? is it still the Brailliant in 10 of the 50 states? And if you go across state lines do you have to call your EReader a brailliant and vice versa? what's the penalty for not doing so? is it a federal offence?
2. Can someone explain to me how to do formatting changes and suchlike on IOS? If I want to take up our friend Josh's challenge and write paragraphs - I've forgotten if they're green or their blue - how would I do it? I don't want to, incidentally, but I do want to know how. If Josh wants me to write an essay he's going to have to come up with a more interesting topic than that. seriously, though, I'd like to know how you do this. i suppose one can use UEB commands with BSI for bold and italics and suchlike, and that's one reason I really like UEB, but is there another way? And is there a way to fiddle about with fonts?

Who ever heard of writing a PHD on a mobile phone anyway?

Lol dude, calm yourself. The NLS Ereader has an exterior which is the same as the Brailliant BiX 20. The software, though, is different. It also uses a different Bluetooth identifier for screen readers, but does use HID Braille. So just adding support for the Brailliant does not add support for the EReader, or the Chameleon. And the reason they've not gotten to all 50 states yet is because they've just not gotten there yet. Also nobody gives a damn what you call it.

2. Talking to the Google Assistant without TalkBack talking over you. So the user puts away their NLS EReader. "Bah, I don't need Braille anyway," they say to themselves. "It just slows me down." So, they zoom around the Android interface with TalkBack commands, enjoying how snappy everything is. And then they want Google to open an app for them, since that takes a little more work to find an app. So, they hold down the home button, and TalkBack says "Assistant, tap to dismiss assistant." Meanwhile, the assistant is listening, and the user has lost track of what they were saying. So they try again, this time using "Hey Google." Still, TalkBack talks over them. Sighing, they leave the assistant alone and just go to the quick settings, find the search button, and type in a few letters of what they're looking for.
Thank God, I’m not the only one that’s experiencing annoying is heck talkback call Talkback talking over Google assistant
Also, I don’t even know how to mute switch on talkback.

I believe you double tap and hold with two fingers.

Josh, thanks for letting me choose the essay topic. I can, at least, play to my strengths that way - although unless I choose a subject about which you know I don't know how I'm going to receive constructive feedback and a competent grade from you. I realise your point is different fonts and colours and suchlike, so the minute someone tells me how to do that I will pen you a piece on the 2017-2019 parliament so sparkly it'll hurt your eyes to read it.

Devin, my comment about state lines and names was on the facetious side. Clearly, not taken in the spirit in which it was intended - a salutory reminder of one dimension of Brookfield's criticaly reflective lens (Brookfield, 1998). But you can't leave me hanging like that: looks like a Brailliant, feels like a brailliant, tastes like a Brailliant (for all I know), but isn't a Brailliant? So what are the other differences? and why can't those in the US just make do with a Brailliant? It's a damn fine product, I promise you that.

One of the main reasons I switched to Android back in 2020 was that I was just bored of iOS and wanted to try something new. There were positives, like being able to just copy paste my music from the computer to my phone without having to deal with iTunes, and being able to add an SD card for more storage (which is no longer possible with the new Samsung phones). I really missed the responsiveness of voiceover though. I switched right before Apple added the image description feature to voiceover, which was eventually why I came back to iOS. I wish iOS was more open like android.

Well, Bingo! You got it! They don't just provide the thing cause they want it to be a reading device, and not a writing device. So no editor, no calendar, just a book reader, date and time, online services, battery, user guide, and power off basically, oh and settings. So yeah they just locked it down a bit more.

When I was last using android, I had a Galaxy S20. Talk back would crash, and freeze up, all the time in chrome if it was a larger website. That phone had 12 GB of ram, and 256 GB of storage. No reason for it to lag or crash just browsing around basic websites. That's just bad programming.

Question with iPhone out of the box, pressing side button and asking siri to turn VO on a person can start playing with the iPhone. Can you press the side button and ask google to turn on talkback to play with the pitsel or android?

For Google pixel, you either compress the volume up button inside button, but volume up and volume down buttons, or put two fingers on the screen and I guess pinch your turn or something I don’t know. You can do this on the set up screen.
Both on my pixel and my 804 I have needed sided assistance to turn on the screen reader.
That I don’t mind if I can deal with it.
I’ve got a map to set up of the phones, are very easy as long as you can get the grip of the gestures, which is why you should do the talkback tutorial on first bit of talkback if you’re in experienced an android

I read his message about all of android's short comings and it is true. Apple also innovates Google doesn't so Google could add the missing things in a year in theory I probably wouldn't switch back. That bug of Talk back speaking over the assistant has been around for a while. I'm sure people have contacted Google accessibility they still haven't been bothered to fix it.

Voice over offers better support for those that need or want to use a keyboard I know for a fact I've reported it to Google accessibility desk for years. When a Company doesn't do anything you can come to one conclusion based on actions. They don't care. It isn't a priority for them. That is not a company that will earn my recommendation or business.

All the people that are saying Apple fixes bugs on iOS.
What about the bugs that have been around for years and have not been resolved?
What about all the Braille box?
What about VoiceOver crashing?
What about macOS bugs? Like the busy and not responding bugs?
So you can’t go saying that android is bad when iOS has issues does try stopping as well?

I use an iPad 9 with a slin folio logitech and the experience is not that great. I would say is not something to write home about it. Disagree. I do like my iPad 9 and is good but using the bluetooth keyboard can be better. I have a feeling that a microsoft tablet with a similar keyboard be better.

Android probably has the best customisation features ever. You can change from Singh to thing each time, re-order your homepages, add folders, seamlessly, you don’t need a computer to get ringtones. You can have external SD cards to expand your storage, the settings app as well designed. Substance of the Best Buy magic authentication on the block. Not to mention that even though both of the recognition features a crap was saying some and Google Future posts and fingerprint recognition on this password pattern and 10 unlocking. Let’s not forget the beautiful selection of ringtone and text tons. Does that available to choose on android and an awesome library free to use extremely great sounds
As for iOS iOS has an easy set up process, they have eloquence support, the ringtone and text tones. I have to admit, are better than nothing, and they seamlessly connect with other Apple devices. But time with android devices. A Google phone Ana Google Chrome book the Google watch and a Google power of our phones plus possibly windows 11 computer repair Sue mostly with each other, creating a parcel experience for ŘƏHÄŇ and anyone that she’s is Jesus android.
All I’m saying is, even though android likes when it comes to accessibility and sometimes performance,
That baby still got dog in them

Three things I do love about Android's Braille support:

• You can type as fast and as much as you want. Nothing will slow that thing down.
• Connecting and disconnecting from Braille displays is easy.
• The TalkBack Braille keyboard usually gets things correct, all the time. Braille Screen input on iOS has gotten really unreliable for me.

Also being able to use Telegram, DoorDash, Evidation, and this cool ChatGPT app called SpeakGPT, is really cool. Also it works very well with Windows. I can even copy something on my Windows computer, like my OpenAI API key, and paste it on my Android phone.

I like Android because it's cheeper than apple and has nifty features like being able to copy files to the device just by plugging it in and going from there, even though I wouldn't use that feature it's neat.

I like that Lookout is getting the BeMyEyes vertual assistant treatment but the google version, I wonder if apple will come out with something like that?

I like apples' flick down gesture when on things like youtube videos to go to menues, with talkback you have to tap and hold to get to those menus, as far as I know.

Personally I'm going to stick to appple, because at least when I get a phone or apple device I'll know it will work with voiceover. With Android; depending on your make and moddle, you're not always garenteed that talkback will turn on on the first try.

Arguing over what OS is better is pointless as they both have issues.

I doubt apple is going to do any AI stuff for at least a couple years and i'm a bit sad about that but on the other hand they do tend to want things to work as stable as possible before putting it out there so I can get with them on that.

Android/google is AI all the way and while I think that's exciting and knew, there will probably be quite a few bugs to look forward to.

So as I said in the title of this post; both have strengths and weeknesses.

I have a galaxy a04s running android 13. . That device also runs one ui 5.1.
One thing I really like about android is the new maintenance mode
What are basically is is a feature where is JOE FRESh gets taken into maintenance? Nobody will be able to check your data because you’ll be in the maintenance mode.
Just, please make sure the back up your stuff.
Another thing I like is the amount of screen reader, options. To be fair, commentary screen really did make me crash my device and it froze a little bit.
I just doesn’t like being run on Galaxy alpha phones.
Goddamnit! One thing I also hate is the eloquence and vocaliser from blonde help keep on acting up.
Eloquence and vocalise. It won’t open correctly, they keep on crashing, and I can’t use them at all.

A couple other things I hate about android or maybe it’s just my phone is that the phone I have doesn’t have power share which allows that phone charger charge another phone that’s compatible.
It also doesn’t have 5G, although I’m not too phased about that.
And it’s still uses Bluetooth 5.0 and doesn’t use Wi-Fi six
My phone does have a USB seaport, which room is so the iPhone, 15 will have a USB seaport.
My phone also has a head phone, Jack, 6.5 inch, 90 Hope play, 4 GB of RAM and 128 GB of flash George able to be upgraded one terabyte through a microSD card.
It also has probably the best battery life on the $200 phone, the thing I hate about android is the fact that talkback literally wants to talk over everything, although one thing I hate about iOS is the amount of dictation mistakes that I’m getting wrong in the message That I’m writing up right now, whilst sitting in my bed using dictation on this pathetic iPhone, we are just such a burning baboon can’t even count!
One thing I do like about iOS is the amount of security and privacy features on this device.
I also like the fact that it has good enough battery, great VoiceOver, it has eloquence, vocaliser, and the speak.

As for the USBC thing, I believe the EU is making that a requirement which I'm happy about. It'll make charging a bit easier.

charging easy but not fast for iPhone unless you only use the apple cables. EU is getting upset with apple because speed for charging and other things will not be the sane unless you only use cables that apple do. Third party cables will not do so and the EU is not amuse with apple.

I agree with you about USB see, plus I have a MacBook Air charger That’s USB, see I can use

I honestly expected that with apple, they want everything to be Apple so that you can spend more money on their products.

That's another reason I like android, it doens't tie you down as much.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If ya don't like something for this or that reason, then don't use it. But bashing others for their choices is not a good thing to do. Having said that, I agree about having more than one smartphone. Some of us--myself included--just cannot afford it. I know there are a few users on here who have more than one iPhone. If you can afford it, that's great. But I, too, only have one and iOS is where it's at for me as well. I have never used Android, but have heard/read time and again about the subpar accessibility. Those who wish to settle for subpar accessibility are free to do so. But I am among those who think iOS has excellent accessibility thus far, and so I'm therefore sticking with the iPhone for the time being.

I think it’s unfair to say things like if you don’t like something don’t use it. It’s the same as saying if you don’t like living here, then you should move. It’s never as simple as that. And then saying that they believe something is great and that people need to just lay off is also pretty unfair. People are allowed to complain. People are allowed to like some thing. The whole point of this website is to listen to each other.

I think that there’s a lot of surface level stuff that’s pretty good and then it deteriorates as you get deeper. I think that it can be better with a lot of work. And the only way that’s going to happen is if people actively listen, care and support one another. I think it could be really beneficial to say I’m sorry that that’s happening. How can I be useful to you and lend a hand. I don’t think it’s useful to say I think Apple is awesome and it works for me. I also don’t think it’s useful to say I’m not seeing this as an issue. I also don’t think it’s useful to say android has subpar accessibility.

I'm sorry the truth hurts the truth is Android has subpar accessibility bottom line! Google doesn't care about accessibility for all. Apple does. Yes Apple has bugs but they do a better job of listening to the users then Google. Apple also innovates Google doesn't. Take Door detection and point to speak coming to iOS 17. Also the feature for those that can't speak is an innovation what innovation does Google do on accessibility? None!

Whoever has both, do a podcast showing how it work by doing text, openning apps, using google and siri and so on. How to start each device if talkback or VO is not on.

I’m not sure that Apple innovates by creating something that people mostly don’t use. I think most people are going to be like ‘oh that’s really cool,’ use it once or twice, and then never use it again. The door detection would be very useful with smart glasses, which will eventually come. But those are generally still a few years off. we don’t know how usable these new features are going to be. Hopefully they’ll be awesome. We’ll find out together. Android accessibility is improving bit by bit. Android 14 is supposed to be a really big jump in accessibility. There’s a real reason why many advanced users are actually android users in terms of accessibility. The average person is going to pick apple because of the name and hearsay. I’m not sure that Apple is more usable than android. I’ve never meaningfully used an android phone. and I genuinely hope that there can be a third option. My real dream is that Microsoft will eventually release a full Windows phone where we can use jaws or NVDA. And that narrator eventually becomes very usable. Another dream is that somehow someway there can be a second screen reader option for iOS and macOS. A third dream is that AI becomes so good and usable That screens won’t be necessary. We will just have an assistant that we can interact with and will do what we ask. That’s probably at least a decade away though. Although there is a company with former Apple engineers who just demonstrated a new kind of phone that you don’t even have to take out of your pocket because the functionality is so great. They did a Ted talk on it.

Yes, the Humane Communicator is something to keep an eye on.

As much as I'd like to see that thing take off, I don't think it will.

Society love to stare at their phones and watch videos too much to let that happen.

Plus, I don't think people have gotten use to talking to a machine in public.

I certainly won't talk to a device in public, it's hard enough for normal people to hear me, let alone a device.

You do realise the different manufacturers have different accessibility options

Earlier I was using iPhone 11. I went to OnePlus 10 r, but due to lag issue on the talk back and issue about regular updates again I switch back to iOS iOS has a lot of issues but it doesn’t matter and it doesn’t affect our work so I like iPhone

Look, only reason why all of you guys are complaining about android is because you actually haven’t taken the time to try and fix issues that happen in talkback. Once the issue pulls up you go back to iOS. Give Andrew the chance like I did.

It's like talking about the primacy of ahen or an egg. Those who use Android will probably stay with newer Android phones and iOS users may buy another iPhone. To avoid bias opinion and follow the general state of accessibility, it's good to have an alternative system at your disposal. Another point to know Android for iOS users is that once you may get an Android phone from your employer and being unable to operate it, you may fid this device as useless. Althołgh I use iOS everyday, I find that Android better works with an external keyboard but for now I would not switch to Android. Despite all, if someone wants to be a proffessional tech advisor for blind people or an accessibility expert, familiarity regarding these two operating system is amust in my view. system

This podcast is amazing for android users. It has reviews tutorials and interviews.

First off, samsung talkback is always about a year behind google's version. Unless you feel comfortable using terminal tools like ADB you just can't get the most updateed talkback on samsung phones ... it's annoying, you have to do research a lot more than with apple, but I find it works better for me. I recommend anyone who really wants to give android accessibility a fair shake steer clear of Samsung, because it's always going to be behind, unless you're fine with using ADB to install unsupported software like google's talkback. I find I prefer spellcheck on android, although that's down to me not liking the rotor as much as three finger swipes, but you didn't even get to try that if you just used samsung's talkback. I won't pretend that fragmentation is easy and I'll be steering clear of Samsung for my next phone update but you're comparing really outdated software with the best you can get on android. I'll say again unless you're really comfortable with the command line steer clear of Samsung and go for Pixel, oneplus, motorola, Sony etc if you really want a fair comparison.

I think it's safe to say you'll struggle writing a really well formatted paper on either mobile platform. I tried this with Pages and Scrivner on iOS, both apps worked plenty well enough for the actual writing part ... but once you're dealing with hanging indents, MLA citations and the like good luck. I'll admit this specific use case works better on iOS though that's like saying a Braille Lite 2000 works better than a Braille n Speak Classic. Incidentally, I find Braille writing on a display to be much more stable on android ... I can write long e-mails without that annoying cursor movement bug ever showing up. I guess if you had to write a paper on android you should get Voice Dream Writer or whatever it's called now, or you can use ms word for mobile or google docs to at least get the writing part done .... but honestly if you're formatting a paper just use a computer if at all possible. OH, and one more thing, if you're using samsung's talkback you won't have spell check or container navigation, and I know lots of these writing apps use containers for navigation. So, if you have to format and write a paper on android, either use ADB to replace samsung's talkback with google's or get a non-samsung android phone. The actual writing part isn't a problem on either mobile OS, it's the formatting that will really ruin your day.

Maya‘s case is going on WhatsApp search on the Internet going on YouTube texting calling BTc.
I haven’t really played with my galaxy that much, but I have a Galaxy account a Google account and I’m all set up and ready to go.
I can’t wait to continue playing with my galaxy, I’ll think about playing around later when I’m down at the hospital.
Galaxy talkback isn’t the best, but nothing can be completely the best.

If that's what you're doing with your phone you're good to go. Just as an aside I'll say I've found less apps on android that just won't work with the screen reader, so if I download a random app from the play store I think the odds are higher it will be mostly accessible than something from the app store, that's just my experience I know folks here may disagree and that's fine. So for me android wins with broader accessibility but there's a tradeoff there too. Most blindness specific apps work better on iOS. I don't have nfb newsline, my goodmaps explore likes to regularly tell me I'm several blocks away from where I actually am and I had to kiss blindsquare goodbye. I'm still waiting for the Be my Eyes virtual volunteer access, the waiting list didn't even open on android for almost a month after it was available for all you fruit people. That Oko app looks really cool and I can't use it yet, I doubt they'll ever get around to putting it on the play store. So I have less accessibility issues with most apps but the blindness-specific ones are a clear win for iOS and probably always will be.