So since updating to macOS 15.3, has anyone noticed any improvements related to VoiceOver in terms of web accessibility, or have any bugs that you were encountering previously been resolved?
It took 3 minor updates to fix braille output on text areas. With macOS 15.2 and earlier (only the macOS Sequoia series), braille output jumped to the end of the line when focus is set on a text area (e.g. in system settings, system dialogs, etc).
I encountered this behavior when "show multiple items" in VoiceOver utility > Braille > Layout was disabled (which is my preference). I did not check whether this also occurred when that option was enabled (which is the default if you set up a new Mac).
However, there are still too many issues that prevent me from updating my production machine, so that still runs on the latest Sonoma version. I've outlined a few bugs that I'm encountering in 15.3 in another thread here on AppleVis, where the release of macOS 15.3 has been discussed.
There is an issue with the dock. Also Safari is suffering with the SNR thing. I am also having issues with the typing where the arrow key navigation is toggled on and off by itself.
If you're asking to update, I see no need for that.
Iwork apps got huge minor accessibility quality of life improvements. We can navigate numbers formula properly, vo-space onto a cell to edit. In pages VO won't randomly announce partial text style when moving word by word with option l/r arrow. The script to deinteract and jump to top level is a very well thought and working (for once) thing to have when needed. You can happily ignore the new commander and keep using only option key, numpad and trackpad if you want (like come on guys, it's actually working well for those who like that and you still are able to complain?). Calculator I guess is actually 90% usable with VO. Very nice improvements with preview for pdf. Now because of the redesigned commander we can select which app has which vo modifier, useful for google docs suite and vm. A horribly annoying capitalization bug was 90% corrected with my voice (alison us) and from reports much more for other users, developers mainly. VO-j on 15.3 don't get stuck in a loop anymore. But see the bug list and see the I'm done with safari topic to choose by yourself.
Do we even know what causes SNR? personally ever since upgrading to my M3 Pro, I haven’t had any issues that I can remember with it but I remember having a lot of issues on my 2019 MacBook Pro. I would guess it’s memory related though, because VoiceOver already is kinda inefficient and uses what. 300 and something megabytes of RAM. most screen readers use a lot less.
I don’t think is web kit. because it seems to happen on other browsers guessing from what other people have said. and other apps in general, I’ve had it happen with logic which is weird but yeah, it’s happened. But I can’t tell if that’s just VO being VO, or if the app actually froze with browsers 99% chance it was just VO. if it was another app often times it could’ve been the app froze, because VoiceOver usually doesn’t behave like that in other apps
I’m not bias, I use Windows as well mostly for gaming but I use both, and they both have their floors and they both have great things about. VoiceOver is really responsive. when not in a web browser anyway. NVDA on Windows actually works in web browsers. VoiceOver has so many bugs at this point is no way to keep count of them. A lot of screen readers on Windows have app compatibility issues. VoiceOver with most Apple apps works quite well. for example logic, Xcode could be better but it’s okay. I can’t judge with the video editing software because I don’t use it. Pages is fine. NVDA is just a lot more stable than VoiceOver at the moment. there’s good things and bad things about both.
You guys seriously should consider chromebooks for light desktop task, you have cli and gui linux behind for the rest. Typing this on apple safari with apple voiceover on my apple macbook pro wearing apple watch and listening with apple airpods pro. Chromevox is becoming equal to nvda and it's rare I say such thing. Voiceover is a torture on most modern pwa and it's apple fault, not devs'. I can even do this incredible software achievement of selecting text on adjacent lines/html elements. Stick with mac or windows for the moment for pdf though, and I don't know linux gui enough to compare.
I might consider getting one for only web-based tasks considering how cheap they are
but I won’t fully switch away from macOS, at least right now, if VoiceOver becomes completely unusable in every single app then obviously I’ll have to.
If your productivity is at least 75% web-based, that is to say, that if you depend on using a series of web apps to get your job done, then a ChromeBook might be a considerable choice. If for nothing else, they make a wonderful backup machine for when your frustrations with the main OSs have you contemplating the physics required to dent a MacBook with a sledgehammer. :D
I haven't downloaded chrome as yet, and I've only had my new M4 Mac for a week or so so far, but I've no experience SNR on it yet. Even on my Intel Mac, the brief instances of SNR could be gotten around by toggling VO on and off or, if I was in a text field, continuing to type whatever I was typing until it went away, always aftera few seconds or so. So, what settings do people usually change on Safari? I haven't bothered tto change much of anything ineither mac.
Comments
Braille finally works again
It took 3 minor updates to fix braille output on text areas. With macOS 15.2 and earlier (only the macOS Sequoia series), braille output jumped to the end of the line when focus is set on a text area (e.g. in system settings, system dialogs, etc).
I encountered this behavior when "show multiple items" in VoiceOver utility > Braille > Layout was disabled (which is my preference). I did not check whether this also occurred when that option was enabled (which is the default if you set up a new Mac).
However, there are still too many issues that prevent me from updating my production machine, so that still runs on the latest Sonoma version. I've outlined a few bugs that I'm encountering in 15.3 in another thread here on AppleVis, where the release of macOS 15.3 has been discussed.
Nothing I am aware of
There is an issue with the dock. Also Safari is suffering with the SNR thing. I am also having issues with the typing where the arrow key navigation is toggled on and off by itself.
If you're asking to update, I see no need for that.
Iwork apps got huge minor…
Iwork apps got huge minor accessibility quality of life improvements. We can navigate numbers formula properly, vo-space onto a cell to edit. In pages VO won't randomly announce partial text style when moving word by word with option l/r arrow. The script to deinteract and jump to top level is a very well thought and working (for once) thing to have when needed. You can happily ignore the new commander and keep using only option key, numpad and trackpad if you want (like come on guys, it's actually working well for those who like that and you still are able to complain?). Calculator I guess is actually 90% usable with VO. Very nice improvements with preview for pdf. Now because of the redesigned commander we can select which app has which vo modifier, useful for google docs suite and vm. A horribly annoying capitalization bug was 90% corrected with my voice (alison us) and from reports much more for other users, developers mainly. VO-j on 15.3 don't get stuck in a loop anymore. But see the bug list and see the I'm done with safari topic to choose by yourself.
The arrow key bug was…
The arrow key bug was reported in 2017 so nothing new here and it's the moment we think internally about mac a11y.
The Arrow Key bug?
I don’t think I’ve ever encountered this bug at all. Is it still an issue?
As for SNR
Do we even know what causes SNR? personally ever since upgrading to my M3 Pro, I haven’t had any issues that I can remember with it but I remember having a lot of issues on my 2019 MacBook Pro. I would guess it’s memory related though, because VoiceOver already is kinda inefficient and uses what. 300 and something megabytes of RAM. most screen readers use a lot less.
I don’t think is web kit. because it seems to happen on other browsers guessing from what other people have said. and other apps in general, I’ve had it happen with logic which is weird but yeah, it’s happened. But I can’t tell if that’s just VO being VO, or if the app actually froze with browsers 99% chance it was just VO. if it was another app often times it could’ve been the app froze, because VoiceOver usually doesn’t behave like that in other apps
I’m not bias, I use Windows as well mostly for gaming but I use both, and they both have their floors and they both have great things about. VoiceOver is really responsive. when not in a web browser anyway. NVDA on Windows actually works in web browsers. VoiceOver has so many bugs at this point is no way to keep count of them. A lot of screen readers on Windows have app compatibility issues. VoiceOver with most Apple apps works quite well. for example logic, Xcode could be better but it’s okay. I can’t judge with the video editing software because I don’t use it. Pages is fine. NVDA is just a lot more stable than VoiceOver at the moment. there’s good things and bad things about both.
VO+J
VO+J has improved so it's not always entirely useless. (Apologies if this was a previous Sequoia change)
You guys seriously should…
You guys seriously should consider chromebooks for light desktop task, you have cli and gui linux behind for the rest. Typing this on apple safari with apple voiceover on my apple macbook pro wearing apple watch and listening with apple airpods pro. Chromevox is becoming equal to nvda and it's rare I say such thing. Voiceover is a torture on most modern pwa and it's apple fault, not devs'. I can even do this incredible software achievement of selecting text on adjacent lines/html elements. Stick with mac or windows for the moment for pdf though, and I don't know linux gui enough to compare.
Maybe I’m not sure
I might consider getting one for only web-based tasks considering how cheap they are
but I won’t fully switch away from macOS, at least right now, if VoiceOver becomes completely unusable in every single app then obviously I’ll have to.
Not to derail this thread, but ...
If your productivity is at least 75% web-based, that is to say, that if you depend on using a series of web apps to get your job done, then a ChromeBook might be a considerable choice. If for nothing else, they make a wonderful backup machine for when your frustrations with the main OSs have you contemplating the physics required to dent a MacBook with a sledgehammer. :D
SNR and Sequoia
I haven't downloaded chrome as yet, and I've only had my new M4 Mac for a week or so so far, but I've no experience SNR on it yet. Even on my Intel Mac, the brief instances of SNR could be gotten around by toggling VO on and off or, if I was in a text field, continuing to type whatever I was typing until it went away, always aftera few seconds or so. So, what settings do people usually change on Safari? I haven't bothered tto change much of anything ineither mac.