TurnOver - The Mac screenreader for when voiceover isn't quite up to it... Call for closed beta

And thank you for everyone who has sent a message. I'm hoping to get the beta out over the next couple of days. Regarding Word, I'm reading the latest thread on issues so trying to address what VoiceOver is struggling with. My grand idea for this is a platform where we can work as a community to build solutions for apps using the modules of TurnOver and circumnavigate the locked down aspects of voiceover.

I am hoping this can be a bit more of a community project. I'm going to be building in a means of creating plugins using AI with a specific formula that lactches in to the modules of TurnOver, a little like the NVDA plug ins. That will be V2 though. For the moment I just want to get the most problematic apps sorted.

O

If you could drop me a message, I'll send you the link. I just don't really want to make it public at this early stage.

For full transparency, I'm vibe coding this using claud code. though the coding is all claud, the design decisions are all mine.

I understand some might be upset by this and I quite understand if they don't wish to take part. Truth is though, I can iterate far faster and have something in people's hands sooner than if I were working long hand and, let's face it, we've waited long enough.

No, screen curtain won't stay on as voiceover quits whilst TurnOver takes control. It is something I can certainly add to the list of requests though.

Sorry the numbering of builds is a bit mad. I've been updating things quite quickly.

Headline features of build 8 are as follows:

• Braille: works with any display VoiceOver supports, over USB or Bluetooth, using VoiceOver's own drivers and braille tables. Contracted and uncontracted braille, typing on the braille keyboard, routing keys, and VoiceOver's space-with-dots commands.
• Automatic language switching: pages in other languages are read with a voice for that language, as in NVDA.
• Microsoft Word: says the page as you arrow onto a new one, reads long paragraphs in full, and finds spelling errors across the whole document.
• Mail: Tab and Shift Tab between the message list and mailboxes, and every field of a new message, including which address you send from, can be reached.
• Safari: video players such as YouTube work with their own keys, and pages that are slow to load are read as soon as they arrive.
• Screen Curtain carries over from VoiceOver.
• Control pauses and resumes speech, as in VoiceOver.
• The TurnOver menu is available from anywhere with Command Control N, even where VoiceOver leads.
• Finder and Claude added as previews.
• It updates itself, and tells you what's new to try each time.

Once these foundations are shaken out I can move on to other apps such as Music, Podcasts and other Microsoft products.

thank you all for your input on this and kind words. If you do want to get on the beta, drop me a line through the AppleVis contact form.

Stay frosty

O

Hi all,

Build 13 is out, and testers should be offered it in the next day or so. It's been a busy few builds since build 8, so here's what's new.

The beta is now locked to testers, a bit like TestFlight. Every tester has a personal key, and I've emailed everyone theirs. If you're testing and haven't had yours, drop me a line. Each beta build works for 90 days, and every update starts that again.

New apps (previews, off until you turn them on in the TurnOver menu, Applications): - Music, Podcasts and TV. Up and Down move through everything on the page, every shelf and every item, reading further down as you go. Left and Right jump between shelves, Tab moves between the sidebar, the page and the player, Return opens or plays, and Escape goes back. - The App Store. Every app on a page, the whole of each shelf rather than three at a time. App pages read in order: price, rating, developer, size, description, reviews, privacy and accessibility notes. Space presses Get, Open or Update, and a price needs two presses so nothing is bought by accident. Command F searches. - TextEdit. - Any other app you have open, from Applications, Unverified apps. They may not read well yet, but you can try them, and feedback on them is welcome.

Two keyboard styles: - Windows style, for people coming from NVDA: NVDA's commands, Control C and V and friends, Home and End, Return to open in Finder and F2 to rename. Caps Lock Left and Right step through everything in a window, going in and out of groups by themselves, as Narrator does. - Mac style, for people who know VoiceOver: VoiceOver's own commands, with navigation in VoiceOver's groups. VO Shift Down goes into a group and VO Shift Up comes out. VO Home and End, VO Command Home and End, VO J, VO Return, VO Backslash, VO Shift Space and many more now work. - Caps Lock Shift K switches between them.

Screen recognition: Caps Lock R reads the window from the screen, for apps that don't tell a screen reader anything (games, Steam, pictures of text). Arrow through rows, words and characters, and click on what you find. Command Control R does it anywhere, even where VoiceOver leads.

Finder: Tab goes round the window as in Windows Explorer: files, sidebar, toolbar, search. The sidebar works with the arrow keys, even though Finder never gives it the keyboard.

Hints, as in VoiceOver: pause on something and TurnOver tells you what you can do with it. You can turn them off.

Also new: - An application chooser, including the system alerts Command Tab leaves out (Caps Lock F1 twice in the Mac style, Option Tab in the Windows style). - Mail: Escape leaves the message you're reading, as in Outlook, and quotes say their level. - Quick keys wrap round the page and tell you so. - Braille tables in every language macOS has. - Touch ID and password prompts say what they're asking. - Return in an alert presses the button you're on, not the alert's default. - Pages in two languages read TurnOver's own words in your main voice, and each language can have its own speech rate.

Lots of fixes too, many of them from testers' reports. Thank you, keep them coming. The full list is in the TurnOver menu, Updates, What's new.

Next up: Messages, WhatsApp, Outlook and other communication apps.

If you'd like to join the beta, send me a message through my AppleVis contact details.

Stay frosty

O

Me again! Sorry, there will be one more after this too, just trying to catch up with everything...

Daniel: sorry you didn't get a link. I send them to people who message me through the AppleVis contact form, so I never had your email address. Drop me a message there and I'll send you everything you need. On progress bars when downloading installers in Terminal, I haven't tried that yet, so once you're in, give it a go and let me know if it stays quiet.

Choom: thank you, and thank you for Vosh. TurnOver's Caps Lock handling follows the approach you took there, and it helped a lot to know it could be done at all. I'm sorry it didn't get the contributions it deserved. Thanks for the tip on permissions too. TurnOver watches Caps Lock at the keyboard itself, which is the part that needs Input Monitoring, but I'll look at whether that can be avoided.

Ashley, and everyone asking about contributing: thank you, it means a lot. The plan is plugins first, so people can add support for apps without touching the core of TurnOver. I'll say more when that's ready.

ziixies: Messenger and Instagram on the web are worth a try in Safari now. If they misbehave, use Send feedback in the TurnOver menu and I'll take a look. Messaging apps are next on my list.

Casey: in Terminal, TurnOver reads new output as it arrives, and Caps Lock Up and Down read back through the screen without disturbing the command line. In Mail, the message list and messages read consistently, Tab moves between the message list and the mailboxes, and every field of a new message can be reached, including which address you send from. And if you've never had Safari not responding, you're one of the lucky ones!

Blindjedi: yes, it's written in Swift. Word now says the new page as you arrow onto it, and Caps Lock Delete tells you the page and line you're on. Merged cells and a VoiceOver-style caret option are on the list.

Voracious P. Brain: TurnOver reads a Word document as one piece, so arrowing up from the top of a page takes you to the end of the previous one. Caps Lock M moves between comments in the Windows style (VO Command M in the Mac style). Excel's row and column announcements and the Control-click Wi-Fi menu are on the list.

Jimmy V: iPhone Mirroring is on the list too, but I've not yet looked into how viable it might be.

O

Me again! Last time, I promise...

A few people have asked me about how this is going to be distributed after the beta cycle. To make this sustainable, maintaining the application, updating when OS updates, or apps change, providing support, and developing features, I'm planning a subscription.. model, aiming for £4 a month (location adjusted), or £40 a year.

I really want to keep the price low as I know we hate spending money on things that should just damn well work... However, all of this takes time. I am vibe coding this so it also takes compute. I'm not looking to take advantage of Apple's failures... Mutter mutter... But if you want this to continue and not fall to one side like so many well intended initiatives do, it needs to be financially viable.

but, I really do want your view on this. Is that a fair cost? Is it too much? Is it too little?

Please, hit me up with your thoughts.

Stay frosty!

O

I've sent a key by email to all people in the beta. If you have any issue, please drop me an email and I'll get you sorted.

O

Hi all,

Build 15 is out. Testers should be offered it in the next day or so; the TurnOver menu, Updates, Check for updates fetches it straight away. The headlines:

• Messages and WhatsApp, as previews (TurnOver menu, Applications). Your keyboard stays in the message box; Tab goes to the messages, newest first, and Shift Tab to the conversations. The shortcut menu lists a message's own actions. New messages in the open conversation are read as they arrive.
• Spelling errors anywhere. TurnOver E and Shift E (VO Command E in the Mac style) go to the next and previous misspelled word in any text: Word, TextEdit, Mail, and text boxes on web pages, this comment box included. That one has bugged me for years.
• Braille: the display now shows what you're on, not what TurnOver says. Mail's list, menus, chats, Music's shelves and Terminal's output all show, and messages give way as soon as you move. Typing on the display is better too.
• The menu bar the way each style has it. Mac style: VO M lands on the Apple menu's title, Left and Right along the bar, Down opens; VO M twice does the same along the status menus. Windows style: Command alone opens the Apple menu as a list, Option B lists the status menus.
• Notifications from other apps are read as they appear. A switch in Preferences, Presentation.
• For NVDA people: screen layout on or off, and automatic focus mode on or off, in Preferences, Browse mode. For VoiceOver people: headings and links say the words first ("AppleVis, heading level 1"), with a setting to choose.
• Music, Podcasts and TV: searching reads the results, Space says what it did, the tool bar is reachable with Tab, and Return on a song in the library says "playing".
• Mail: Return in search says how many results and goes to them; Command Shift D says "sent".

And a long list of fixes from a review of the whole code base this week, including speech coming back by itself when headphones connect, settings that can no longer be lost on an update, and VoiceOver being brought back even if its shortcut is off. The full list is in the TurnOver menu, Updates, What's new.

the rest of this week is housekeeping: automated tests, and tidying under the bonnet, so the pace of new apps slows for a bit.

Thank you all for the reports. Keep them coming.

Stay frosty

O

Choom is right that it can't go in the Mac App Store, and it doesn't need to: TurnOver works through the accessibility interface Apple provides for exactly this, it's signed with my Developer ID and checked by Apple's notarisation, and it ships outside the store like every other assistive tool on the Mac. No reverse engineering is involved. TheBlindGuy07, fair point on hype: it's a beta, and it should be judged by people using it, not by the thread. I'm glad that people are finding parts they like, but there is still a lot of work ahead to even consider shipping it as a final product. I'd say it's more of a judgement on how Apple have dropped the ball on this one than anything that I'm doing.

On the AI point, Choom, I understand the worry, so here's how it's actually built. I design it, I decide what it does and how, and I test every build by hand before it goes out, with a braille display and both keyboard styles. The AI writes code to that design and I read it. This week I also had it review its own code base as a hostile reviewer, and we fixed what that found before build 15. It isn't a toy and it isn't unsupervised, and there's a sandbox-free reality here that applies to every screen reader: VoiceOver, NVDA and JAWS all need the same privileges, because reading the screen is the job.

ziixies: thanks for trying it, and that's a fair verdict for a beta that's a week old. Nothing is charged for yet; the beta is free and is, as I took pains to point out, a beta and, as such, expecations should take that into account. If the voice change left you silent: Command Control T brings VoiceOver back, then this one line in Terminal puts the voice back to Reed and keeps your other settings:

python3 -c "import json,os;p=os.path.expanduser('~/Library/Application Support/TurnOver/settings.json');d=json.load(open(p));d.setdefault('speech',{});d['speech']['voice']='com.apple.eloquence.en-GB.Reed';d['speech']['languageVoices']={};json.dump(d,open(p,'w'),indent=2)"

Start TurnOver again (Command Control T) and it speaks; then TurnOver menu, Updates, Check for updates gets you build 15, which notices a silent voice and switches back by itself. It's in the guide too, under "If something goes wrong".

O