Edit: I started this thread focused on text scrolling, but I think that we need to have this dedicated hub to centralized any false positive and positive complaints to apple concerning this once and for all, and write any tip or trick we each might have for text handling with voiceover on the mac, as complaints about this topic are spread out in lots of random macos topics. Plus how mac text navigation works is very different from that of windows especially from a screen reader perspective...
So as page up and page down don't work the same way on the mac than on windows for scrolling text, and voiceover gestures on the trackpad have disappointing and innefficient result for me, I have just found a clever tip.
It's not the best but it at least works and is quite decent, but basically you want to use the move to visible beginning/end commands, vo-shift-left/right arrows, and then go down or up with the keyboard, and so on, in apps such as pages, textedit and etc. I find it baffeling that apple is unable to make such a simple and essential feature accessible and convenient for blind users on mac to the point that people apparently think that searching is more efficient. Scrolling gives you this big overview and allow you to quickly jump to a desired part of the text when you actually don't know what to search for.
Anyways, hope this can help somebody out there.
PS: is it a bug or the vo-shift-s for the scroller just doesn't seem to work anywhere from safari to textedit and pages?
Comments
Design choice differences, not bugs
I wouldn't describe the issues discussed here as bugs. I think they're intentional design choices that affect movement by word, selection, and other basic editing operations. If you don't agree with them, that's fine - you always have the option of using a different operating system and being happy, if that's your preference.
The assumption Apple makes is that you'll adapt your way of working to their design. For example, if I move backward by word, then delete a word "backward" (with Option-Delete), there won't be an extra space left after the deletion is complete. I can read the line with VO-L to understand the context before deleting, or, in my case, use a Braille display.
Similarly, if I delete forward a word with FN-Option-Delete after moving to the end of the previous word with Option-Right-Arrow, no extraneous space is left either, and I don't have to read the word to be deleted repeatedly.
I came to the Mac with experience of graphical editors under Linux, which adopts some of the same conventions, so I never had an issue with adaptation. Windows is different from both macOS and Linux in this area.
Page up and page down do…
Page up and page down do work in text field for sighted users just VO not announcing anything is an oversight from apple. I have learned to deal with it but it's not convenient at all. The real difficulty to select text in pdf though is something I can't accept. The rest I agree and have mostly accepted. There is a real bug with VO improperly recognizing the scrolling gestures with the 3 fingers on the trackpad though. Say all starting always at the beginning of the paragraph/element on the web even if it had to have +500 words is a poor design they will probably never change. Read the latest posts about the i'm done with safari on mac thread and you can arguably not justify all the issues of VO? I have recently posted a thread about how I discovered to do the secondary click on the trackpad with VO, as far as I know it's one of. the many thing that's literally just not documented and they kinda expect us to know and never acknowledge when they are faulty. The go rewind and fast forward scrips for say all aren't documented at all and the only mention of them is in the commands help or the commander category of VO Utility, again 0 documentation.
I've tried Orca, chromevox, speakup, and voiceover is still the screen reader which has the most impressive amount of bugs which they have fortunately started sorting out with sequoia.
The fact that I need apparently an m2 max+ just to run vim properly with VO on the native terminal is something difficult to accept for mee too as it works perfectly with windows on wsl and probably with speakup though I wasn't good with vim back then, arguably narrator and chromevox are worst than vo could never be with terminal.
And my favourite, "appname" does not respond / is not responding seems to be something that we have to tolerate. This is not normal. Whether it's browsers, system settings when displaying the license at each update, and everywhere else including the finder and even sometimes the login windows. VO hasn't been optimized for arm at all as it's very very very very easy to make it crash unlike windows screen readers.
Scrolling with accessibility pointer control
So I still keep trying to find a reliable way to properly scroll and hear the content I am scrolling through like on Windows. I've recently discovered alternate pointer control options and it seems to be surprisingly convenient. I no longer need to drag my finger on the trackpad with trackpad commander on (which doesn't work with Pages or Xcode anyway) but I have just assigned option shift f11 to left click and option shift f12 to right click and I scroll with page up and page down or. Why? Because using the scrollbar interaction as Apple calls it only announces go down/up a page, which I already know, so it's a redundant information with 0 usefulness, not the actual content like sighted people scroll and glance at it. The 3 fingers gestures on the trackpad are more or less the same and don't solve this problem either. So I use just page up and page down which does something in fact and I am sure not many are aware because VO integration wasn't thought at all.
Is there any way through apple script or otherwise that could basically announce the new content under the mouse pointer as it changes, which is what page up and page down basically does, scrolling the screen with the pointer and sighted people can just click to bring the insertion point at that level?
I am not blaming how scrolling operates on mac, I actually can respect it, but what I don't understand is VO being so poor with such basic text interaction. Yes, some might say I am obsessed with the Windows way of doing things and I want to replicate on the mac... No. I like the mac way of doing many things in fact, the cursor being just one example. What I dislike is how poorly the accessibility side of things is laid out.
Thanks!
We are all a little passionate about our preferred tech
Let's face it, Windows handles text navigation very well. Even with Narrator out of the box. There really is nothing wrong with acknowledging that; even if some folks disagree.
It really is a shame VO does not handle text navigation so great these days. The twisted thing is that you know its VoiceOver. I would bet that sighted folks have no issues with large documents and text navigation.
I feel like somewhere along the way, VoiceOver became something of an after thought. At least where macOS is concerned.
Windows again
Brian, this is exactly why I'll be looking for a Windows laptop sometime this year. I'll keep my Mac for Scrivener, but owning a Windows laptop will give me Word, which, as we all know, is a non-starter on Apple.
Scrivener
Heaven forbid Scrivener ever becomes accessible on Windows.
I fear this would incite Paul to the dark side.