Microsoft's 365 Cloud PC solution could work, but they will have to make it viable for individual use. I would not touch Parallels, as it seems too limiting.
macOS Sonoma 14.3 released, still with the breaking change that makes VMware Fusion unusable while VoiceOver is on.
There's an empty internal partition on my desktop, called "Windows" ...
I'll still need a portable Mac in future, I think, and I'll still need Windows in a VM, so I'd best migrate my VMs over to UTM. The options for treating Caps Lock as a regular key in the VM, and for switching grab/ungrab to Command-Option instead of Control-Option do mean it's actually quite nice to use. But it's not a substitute for Fusion or Parallels for performance, sadly, and ARM Windows simply won't be the same as using x86_64 Windows on Intel/AMD hardware. Brave new world, and all that.
Ya had me excited until this article was only mentioning running windows in parallels VM or the cloud. Sadly no solution with running this on actual mac hardware with bootcamp, which I would vary, much would love to do. Oh well. Guess I'll still be sticking to my intel based mac. Unless there is a solution that I don't know about. This is actually the main reason of why, I ain't going with apple's new chips. Yes I know VMs are great however, me having my screen reader going through one device and my music production software going through my studio rig and what not is making the switch, vary not likely. Plus, if I'm doing something for an online audience, yeah, I don't like having my NVDA or whatever I'm using, blast through people's ear holes. No thanks. Great find none the less but this ain't for me.
I thought Microsoft had endorsed this a while ago or did I just imagine that?
I presume it's still not accessible with VoiceOver? I'd like to give it a try, but having to use VOCR to get there puts me off. I'm not sure I want to pay for inaccessible software.
Yep agree with what's been said above. I honestly don't think this is anything new here at all. I could and would love to be totally wrong on this though. Meh, I'll be passing on this for sure.
UTM isn't the easiest tool to use because it's a frontend to QEMU so you need to configure it to use the graphical display and not show you the terminal interface. I am not aware of a guide, though it wouldn't be too hard to rustle something up. At the moment I don't have a dedicated Apple Silicon Mac to run Windows on and I'm saving up for my notebook purchase; I'm using UTM exclusively on my server Mini in Apple's Virtualization mode and on my Intel 2020 iMac chiefly to run Linux. The procedure should be relatively similar though, except for the part that you download the ARM ISO which is a somewhat fiddly affair requiring you do some Terminal things to build the ISO image because M$ don't have one available for download. It really isn't as nice as using VMware or Parallels though, sadly.
As for ripping your music, absolutely this is still supported by the Music app. Check the CDs and DVDs settings in macOS, and the Settings window in Music. It's all there, still. I might actually be able to go back to using Music.app for managing my library again, with the aid of some AppleScripts to add missing track numbers that I'd accidentally destroyed.
Edit: Oops, see you said Movies, not Music. Sorry about that! Well, which tool did you have in mind? There might be Mac alternatives.
While I admittedly haven't used it in a while, I'm a bit surprised that Microsoft didn't recognize VMWare Fusion as a solution since unless they've pulled support for it, their latest version supports the ARM edition of Windows. I use Parallels which is doable with VOCR and a lot of patience, but really wish it had a more accessible interface if only because I hate supporting something that is so blatantly inaccessible. The Windows 365 streaming option is an interesting one, I know it's not consumer-friendly right now, but makes me wonder where we might be at in a little while. If lag could be reduced, maybe we could use our phones or iPads as terminals for something far more powerful in the cloud? I know that presumes a constant internet connection and so wouldn't be an ideal for everyone, but I find the possibilities really fascinating.
I agree, Parallels can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned. It's inaccessible trash, and the developers don't seem to care!
I thought the VMware Fusion crashing problem was an issue with the program, but maybe not? I don't use macOS anymore, but I tried helping a friend set up a VM in Fusion on an M1 MacBook Pro, and it just crashed.
For those who want to download a Windows ISO, check out Crystal Fetch. It seems very easy to use from my brief play on my friend's Mac using RIM. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/crystalfetch-iso-downloader/id6454431289?mt=12
Crystal Fetch seems very nice! I wasn't aware of the UTM affiliation, but that's definitely progress since I last did this. Obviously for x86_64 you can still just go to a web page at Microsoft, the Mac and Linux even get special treatment and direct download links, this is most important for ARM. I'm just surprised the app made it to the Mac App Store.
Concerning Fusion crashing, this was a breaking change introduced by Sonoma; there's a security check in AppKit that means the setuid root helper which manages the VM will be abruptly terminated and it's presumably tickled by the presence of VoiceOver, but the change was made by Apple. I don't know whose responsibility it is to fix it, but Apple were definitely the ones who broke it.
I'm still using my 2011 Mac book pro. It can't upgrade past high sierra on the mac side, and it is running Windows 10, but it meets my needs perfectly. I still use windows for pretty much everything except email, and I especially use windows for gaming. Not sure what I'm going to do when I inevitably have to replace this computer. Hoping that maybe Bootcamp will come back some day, but it doesn't seem all that likely. I guess that if worst comes to worst, I'll try to buy the newest intel mac I can find.
Very doable. However, don't bother wasting money on a MacBook. You will want a dedicated graphics chip, and will spend entirely too much cash for entirely too little return on your investment.
Instead, get yourself a decent iMac, Mac Pro, etc. Personally, I would suggest iMac. Find a refurb iMac pre 2020 with decent ram (16gb minimum) and a good GPU and you can game until your eyes bleed.
Have you tried thunderbird for email? It's a bit extra with the amount of times you have to press tab to get to the email table but it's doable, once you're there you can just arrow up and down through your emails and press enter to open one.
It is. It really is. God was smiling sardonically upon whichever hapless Apple executive decided to make the best of their Intel transition. This is very evident on the T2 Macs since practically the only non-Apple and non-Intel drivers are for the GPU, so the experience is exceptional, with at most the GPU driver applet. That and Apple's update process is 100% accessible, and one cannot help but realise just how valuable controlling the entire widget is, from a user-experience perspective, and wishing fervently that other OEMs would take the hint, and do likewise. But alas ...
As to why, well if it's not already obvious, maybe this isn't the right path for you. But as of right now my 2020 iMac is running Sonoma and Windows 11 (hacked up to bypass all the stupid checks). I can boot either one, make myself at home in either, etc. Maybe it means that in future I end up with two machines, but it will be the Mac that's portable, not the Windows machine. And that's how it should be, because Apple Silicon is all about power-per-watt, not overall performance. We shall see.
Apple hardware is superior. Always. Windows runs better on Apple hardware than even Apple software.
Unlike other computer manufacturers out there, Apple does not skimp on materials.
All this has been documented. Research it.
Also, I never said the Mac Mini was inferior, I would have thought that was obvious when I said Mac Pro, iMac, or 'etc'. Mac Mini does have one neat feature, if I recall, it can run without a display.
Anyways, you asked so we gave you informations. If you want a PC to run Windows, then 'do you'.
Just don't laugh at the rest of us who enjoy the benefits of dual booting machines.
Of course, there is quality hardware out there, if you look hard enough, or most probably, resort to a PC builder to build for you. You will need to know what goes in there, tackle inaccessible firmware and deshittify the software (use a tool like Snappy Driver Installer Origin to minimise the bloat of installed drivers if you start clean, but you'll probably have to put up with motherboard applets all the same). Yes, it's possible, absolutely. It's just a question of slaying enough demons to get it the way you want. And obviously, if it's just going to be Windows, that would be the economical and sensible thing to do long-term.
The Mac Mini isn't a bad machine, but it's more like a portable computer in specs than a desktop. Lovely form factor; I use mine as Linux NAS/routers or for running older operating systems. So Iris graphics, rather than an AMD Radeon found in iMacs. Use a site or app like MacTracker to find all the details for the model you will get, if you go down that path. I still say the experience is superior out of the box, but maybe if you can't get the very latest model of the Intel Mac you want, it's time to take the long walk to contemporary Windows hardware if you'll specifically need a SFF workhorse. The Intel NUC is basically dead, but other vendors do make them, like Gigabyte's Brix. Make sure you'll get the connectivity you need; Thunderbolt isn't as cherished in Windows hardware, though USB4 will change it for the better.
Comments
Cloud PC
Microsoft's 365 Cloud PC solution could work, but they will have to make it viable for individual use. I would not touch Parallels, as it seems too limiting.
Good article and good find. ππΌ
Meanwhile ...
macOS Sonoma 14.3 released, still with the breaking change that makes VMware Fusion unusable while VoiceOver is on.
There's an empty internal partition on my desktop, called "Windows" ...
I'll still need a portable Mac in future, I think, and I'll still need Windows in a VM, so I'd best migrate my VMs over to UTM. The options for treating Caps Lock as a regular key in the VM, and for switching grab/ungrab to Command-Option instead of Control-Option do mean it's actually quite nice to use. But it's not a substitute for Fusion or Parallels for performance, sadly, and ARM Windows simply won't be the same as using x86_64 Windows on Intel/AMD hardware. Brave new world, and all that.
Welp... Don't come at me but these are my thoughts.
Ya had me excited until this article was only mentioning running windows in parallels VM or the cloud. Sadly no solution with running this on actual mac hardware with bootcamp, which I would vary, much would love to do. Oh well. Guess I'll still be sticking to my intel based mac. Unless there is a solution that I don't know about. This is actually the main reason of why, I ain't going with apple's new chips. Yes I know VMs are great however, me having my screen reader going through one device and my music production software going through my studio rig and what not is making the switch, vary not likely. Plus, if I'm doing something for an online audience, yeah, I don't like having my NVDA or whatever I'm using, blast through people's ear holes. No thanks. Great find none the less but this ain't for me.
Parallels
I thought Microsoft had endorsed this a while ago or did I just imagine that?
I presume it's still not accessible with VoiceOver? I'd like to give it a try, but having to use VOCR to get there puts me off. I'm not sure I want to pay for inaccessible software.
Re: Parallels
Yep agree with what's been said above. I honestly don't think this is anything new here at all. I could and would love to be totally wrong on this though. Meh, I'll be passing on this for sure.
@Oliver
UTM isn't the easiest tool to use because it's a frontend to QEMU so you need to configure it to use the graphical display and not show you the terminal interface. I am not aware of a guide, though it wouldn't be too hard to rustle something up. At the moment I don't have a dedicated Apple Silicon Mac to run Windows on and I'm saving up for my notebook purchase; I'm using UTM exclusively on my server Mini in Apple's Virtualization mode and on my Intel 2020 iMac chiefly to run Linux. The procedure should be relatively similar though, except for the part that you download the ARM ISO which is a somewhat fiddly affair requiring you do some Terminal things to build the ISO image because M$ don't have one available for download. It really isn't as nice as using VMware or Parallels though, sadly.
As for ripping your music, absolutely this is still supported by the Music app. Check the CDs and DVDs settings in macOS, and the Settings window in Music. It's all there, still. I might actually be able to go back to using Music.app for managing my library again, with the aid of some AppleScripts to add missing track numbers that I'd accidentally destroyed.
Edit: Oops, see you said Movies, not Music. Sorry about that! Well, which tool did you have in mind? There might be Mac alternatives.
Surprised VMWare Fusion didn't make the list
While I admittedly haven't used it in a while, I'm a bit surprised that Microsoft didn't recognize VMWare Fusion as a solution since unless they've pulled support for it, their latest version supports the ARM edition of Windows. I use Parallels which is doable with VOCR and a lot of patience, but really wish it had a more accessible interface if only because I hate supporting something that is so blatantly inaccessible. The Windows 365 streaming option is an interesting one, I know it's not consumer-friendly right now, but makes me wonder where we might be at in a little while. If lag could be reduced, maybe we could use our phones or iPads as terminals for something far more powerful in the cloud? I know that presumes a constant internet connection and so wouldn't be an ideal for everyone, but I find the possibilities really fascinating.
Crystal Fetch
I agree, Parallels can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned. It's inaccessible trash, and the developers don't seem to care!
I thought the VMware Fusion crashing problem was an issue with the program, but maybe not? I don't use macOS anymore, but I tried helping a friend set up a VM in Fusion on an M1 MacBook Pro, and it just crashed.
For those who want to download a Windows ISO, check out Crystal Fetch. It seems very easy to use from my brief play on my friend's Mac using RIM.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/crystalfetch-iso-downloader/id6454431289?mt=12
Crystal Fetch, Fusion
Crystal Fetch seems very nice! I wasn't aware of the UTM affiliation, but that's definitely progress since I last did this. Obviously for x86_64 you can still just go to a web page at Microsoft, the Mac and Linux even get special treatment and direct download links, this is most important for ARM. I'm just surprised the app made it to the Mac App Store.
Concerning Fusion crashing, this was a breaking change introduced by Sonoma; there's a security check in AppKit that means the setuid root helper which manages the VM will be abruptly terminated and it's presumably tickled by the presence of VoiceOver, but the change was made by Apple. I don't know whose responsibility it is to fix it, but Apple were definitely the ones who broke it.
Agree with Oliver
I'm still using my 2011 Mac book pro. It can't upgrade past high sierra on the mac side, and it is running Windows 10, but it meets my needs perfectly. I still use windows for pretty much everything except email, and I especially use windows for gaming. Not sure what I'm going to do when I inevitably have to replace this computer. Hoping that maybe Bootcamp will come back some day, but it doesn't seem all that likely. I guess that if worst comes to worst, I'll try to buy the newest intel mac I can find.
Gaming on Intel Macs
Very doable. However, don't bother wasting money on a MacBook. You will want a dedicated graphics chip, and will spend entirely too much cash for entirely too little return on your investment.
Instead, get yourself a decent iMac, Mac Pro, etc. Personally, I would suggest iMac. Find a refurb iMac pre 2020 with decent ram (16gb minimum) and a good GPU and you can game until your eyes bleed.
Also, Windows via Bootcamp is f**king fabulous.
True story.
The following link is just an example of what you can get with a mid-range iMac:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155964972464?hash=item24503c9db0%3Ag%3A6IoAAOSwS8xloDTS&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4MSjVowWzDdrO0HUs30qhMobXmrPEqiEEK6TCLWumrD4Zq1f3oOiemi9Q%2FAARg5SvTTjW1E41XWfOA0Ng9c64F0gWTAa8CqlAel0%2BRpGZFCvA6lvzVGoRYPsM%2BB9UUm1ii4QVeSbAu5EkVqEnzP3nQqqSLUdSbDO02Q4sGjJmT853w35%2FYTFVJSyixswJcFwiZTAHVoxe2fIRBqyMMeduVqREof0K63dmpg5YM54aoE63OiqZFqowbf2UFATCZTGvkQPzzCpC6UpVjQBDvZxZbCjMIUPRFAozPNs3qJzJG8I%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8aB-sSnYw&LH_ItemCondition=2010%7C2020
@Missy Hoppe
Have you tried thunderbird for email? It's a bit extra with the amount of times you have to press tab to get to the email table but it's doable, once you're there you can just arrow up and down through your emails and press enter to open one.
Re: What sort of thing can oneβ¦
According to this article, you most certainly can.
. . . but hey, you do you.
Re: Also, Windows via Bootcamp is f**king fabulous.
It is. It really is. God was smiling sardonically upon whichever hapless Apple executive decided to make the best of their Intel transition. This is very evident on the T2 Macs since practically the only non-Apple and non-Intel drivers are for the GPU, so the experience is exceptional, with at most the GPU driver applet. That and Apple's update process is 100% accessible, and one cannot help but realise just how valuable controlling the entire widget is, from a user-experience perspective, and wishing fervently that other OEMs would take the hint, and do likewise. But alas ...
As to why, well if it's not already obvious, maybe this isn't the right path for you. But as of right now my 2020 iMac is running Sonoma and Windows 11 (hacked up to bypass all the stupid checks). I can boot either one, make myself at home in either, etc. Maybe it means that in future I end up with two machines, but it will be the Mac that's portable, not the Windows machine. And that's how it should be, because Apple Silicon is all about power-per-watt, not overall performance. We shall see.
Re: Maybe I should get me an⦠(and) Re: If I'm just running wind
Apple hardware is superior. Always. Windows runs better on Apple hardware than even Apple software.
Unlike other computer manufacturers out there, Apple does not skimp on materials.
All this has been documented. Research it.
Also, I never said the Mac Mini was inferior, I would have thought that was obvious when I said Mac Pro, iMac, or 'etc'. Mac Mini does have one neat feature, if I recall, it can run without a display.
Anyways, you asked so we gave you informations. If you want a PC to run Windows, then 'do you'.
Just don't laugh at the rest of us who enjoy the benefits of dual booting machines.
Some of us are cheeky geeky like that. π
It is not seamless
Thanks for the news, however this is not seamless at all!
Windows, Mac Mini
Of course, there is quality hardware out there, if you look hard enough, or most probably, resort to a PC builder to build for you. You will need to know what goes in there, tackle inaccessible firmware and deshittify the software (use a tool like Snappy Driver Installer Origin to minimise the bloat of installed drivers if you start clean, but you'll probably have to put up with motherboard applets all the same). Yes, it's possible, absolutely. It's just a question of slaying enough demons to get it the way you want. And obviously, if it's just going to be Windows, that would be the economical and sensible thing to do long-term.
The Mac Mini isn't a bad machine, but it's more like a portable computer in specs than a desktop. Lovely form factor; I use mine as Linux NAS/routers or for running older operating systems. So Iris graphics, rather than an AMD Radeon found in iMacs. Use a site or app like MacTracker to find all the details for the model you will get, if you go down that path. I still say the experience is superior out of the box, but maybe if you can't get the very latest model of the Intel Mac you want, it's time to take the long walk to contemporary Windows hardware if you'll specifically need a SFF workhorse. The Intel NUC is basically dead, but other vendors do make them, like Gigabyte's Brix. Make sure you'll get the connectivity you need; Thunderbolt isn't as cherished in Windows hardware, though USB4 will change it for the better.
Good luck.