Email client on Windows

Hi Jahmal,

Personally, I enjoy the simplicity and efficiency of Windows 11 Mail. Coming from Bootcamp Windows 10 Student Edition from my old college days to last month obtaining a new Ryzen-based HP PC; I have found I also enjoy Windows Mail for it's calendar synchronization.

To quote an old Apple advert; It just works. 😀

If you're looking for a new email client, I wouldn't recommend getting started with Windows 11 Mail or Calendar at this point, as those apps are being phased out in favor of Outlook. My understanding is that they are not included in new installations of Windows 11, and will be removed from the Microsoft Store on December 31, 2024. While this doesn't necessarily mean that the apps will stop functioning after that date, they will no longer receive bug fix or security updates, which will make them increasingly vulnerable as time goes on. This Microsoft support article goes into more detail about the transition and what existing users of Windows 11 Mail and Calendar can expect.

A shame if that is what Microsoft has chosen to do. The Windows male client is very user-friendly, so I will be sad to see it go.

I switched to Thunderbird. The Outlook app is a nasty web interface for Outlook, so no thank you! Thunderbird works well once you disable all the toolbars, welcome page, etc. The only problem I have with it is the keyboard focus isn't immediately placed on the message list when I open it. I have to press Shift+Tab twice or Shift+F6 to focus it. Where's the best place to report Thunderbird accessibility problems? My first thought is GitHub, unless there's somewhere more specific?

Way back in the days of Windows XP. Speaking of the way back when machine, remember One windows came with a little app called "outlook express", feels like Microsoft is going back to the good old days with this move.

As for reporting on Thunderbird issues, does mozilla.org no longer exist?

I like the mail ap but am just used to thunderbirds way of doing things. Plus, you have to press shift plus enter to open an email, that's just not something i'm used to.

Someone somewhere recommended Betterbird, it supposedly has more bug fixes that Thunderbird doesn't have and the Betterbird team says that they have been adding back old features Mozilla removed from Thunderbird.
You may want to check it out.
I'm not a super power user, so can't vouch or say for what features were added, but hey. May be worth looking into, as it is similar to Thunderbird, but with the supposed added features thhat were missing.

Will definitely give the Betterbird option a try as we get closer to this proposed December deadline.

For info I am on windows10 and yesterday went into the native mail app only to find it has become outlook. Some odd webpage which is horrible. So wouldn't guarantee December before decissions have to be made.

1. Windows mail.

There should be a button that says something like, switch back to the old outlook, if you press enter or space on that it should do it for you.

2. Thunderbird. It's very accessible. You might want to go into settings and change the open mesages in... Radio buttons, I've chosen to open each message in a new tab, also i'm sure if you look around there you'll find other settings to change but once that's done; it should be a very accessible client.

I use Windows Mail for my hotmail account, and Outlook 365 for my Gmail account. The new Windows Outlook is horrible. I'll try that Better Bird thing for my hotmail account when the Mail app as we know it goes away permanently. I didn't like Thunderbird when I tried it. But it's good to know about both options. Maybe I'll give Thunderbird another go too.

Although the latest version of Thunderbird is accessible, they've made so many changes that it's more cumbersome to use. The best version of Thunderbird for usability is 102.15.1. You don't need to press F6 as many times and first letter navigation still works with the old extension. I accidentally upgraded to the latest version (115) and immediately regretted it. I downloaded the portable version of 102.15.1 and have been happily using it ever since.

Betterbird is a nice email client, but I currently can't stand its calendar. I have it syncing with my Google calendar, but all my appointments aren't displayed on a day-to-day basis like Outlook 365 does. This makes finding appointments difficult. Plus, I don't care for the interface. I'm wondering if anyone knows if the sorting behavior can be changed?

Could you switch back to outlook and try to use the new version?

There might be some calander settings in the settings part of thunderbird/betterbird that I'm not aware of but that's all the help I can give on that issue unfortunetly.

The calendar in the new Outlook really isn't that great unfortunately. There aren't many keystrokes for navigating through appointments. Outlook 365's calendar is much better; there are keystrokes (CTRL+Comma and CTRL+FullStop respectively) which take you sequentially back and forwards through appointments. But with the new Outlook, you just have to tab backwards and forwards through everything. And Kelly as for Betterbird, it might be worth exploring the menus to see what things do. There might be a View menu where you can change how things are arranged. Googling to find instructions might help too, even though they'll be written for sighted users. I googled to find out how to change the default view in Outlook 365, since by default, it groups messages by day, and you have to navigate past each day to move through your inbox. Not a smooth experience, but I googled how to get rid of that. I've been thinking of posting instructions for that on here actually.

You can use the feedback hub to write to microsoft about how you'd prefer shortcuts for the calander, I can't garentee they'd implement something new straight away but it's worth trying if the feature means that much to you.

The "old" Microsoft Outlook, as opposed to the emerging Web-based version that still lacks many features of its predecessor, has good screen reader accessibility.

Unfortunately, at least in my case, it crashed quite frequently, especially when accessing IMAP folders. If you're only using a Microsoft Exchange account (including Exchange Online), you may not be affected.

It also lacks desirable features such as the unified inbox.

The Mac version doesn't crash frequently and includes the unified inbox capability.

On balance, I'm not currently tempted to switch to Windows, and this is a good example of why.

Thunderbird is reasonably accessible and quite reliable. I use it regularly, but under Linux, not Windows. I'm not opposed to running Windows, but I have no reason to at the moment - and the downside is having to deal with the security and reliability issues, the updates, etc.

Hi Jason,
I can add my Gmail account to Outlook 365, but I have to authenticate it with the Google app on my phone, and then on my Windows PC, it only accepts the authentication with the Microsoft thing if I press Enter straight away on the dialogue box. I'm not joking, if I press Tab to the 'Apply' and 'OK' buttons and activate them, it keeps going round in a circle telling me that I'm using an unsupported browser to authenticate. According to some Microsoft forums, they're still using some remnents of Internet Explorer somewhere in the system, unbelievable! Windows isn't perfect; I'm just willing to put up with its imperfections more so than for other operating systems. When I get it going and working in the way I want, it does everything I need. And Brad, thanks for the advice about the Feedback hub. I've already upvoted some comments about the new Outlook and how bad it is in general. I left some feedback about the lack of keyboard shortcuts somewhere too. I'm interested in trying out other clients for my hotmail where I don't need a calendar. My Gmail is the one where I need the calendar, and Outlook 365 does the job for the time being. For people who don't want to pay for 365, the lack of a decent calendar is unfair, unless Betterbird's and Thunderbird's calendars do the job for some.

What is the latest about using Betterbird on Windows and NVDA? I'm considering switching to Betterbird because Outlook isn't for me, especially group emails(listservs and messages containing links and images. They tend to slow down reading with my Brailliant. It's no joy. I thought changing some settings in Outlook would do the trick, but no luck whatsoever.

Hi,

Just out of curiosity, which outlook client are you using? The classic one that comes with office 365, or the newer one that replaced windows mail? I'm honestly just curious here.
Also, I am unsure about Betterbird, as a standalone male client, or as a medium for your Braille display.

Thanks for your curiosity. :-) Here's my "history":

I was a long-time happy user of Microsoft Mail program until Microsoft forced me to switch to its Outlook a couple of months ago. It seems to be Outlook Classic, and now I see a constant reminder to switch to their "new Outlook" I'm not really convinced about after encountering the problems with the classic Outlook I described above. I use NVDA as my sole screen reader, and I have yet to switch to Windows 11. I'm on MS 365, if this is of any help/use.

I understand that Betterbird might include more useful options than Thunderbird for me to tweak, making navigating and accessing emails easier than within Outlook.

Addendum: I use my Brailliant BI40X to scroll/pan through messages rather than depend on voice output. As of now in Classic Outlook, I end up tapping multiple times on the Brailliant or on the cursor keys of my PC until the text gets moved forwards or backwards. I rarely had this problem while on MS Mail.

While I cannot speak for the Brailliant display, I can say the new Outlook is a lot more streamlined than the classic Outlook. I was a huge fan of Windows Male, I wish Microsoft never got rid of that. It was so easy and accessible.
I also use NVDA and Office 365, Microsoft is doing this weird thing where they are bringing standalone applications to users, I'm assuming non-Office users, such as the new Outlook and now there is a new Teams app as well.

If you are at all interested, I can post hot keys for the new Outlook, these are not NVDA-specific, but rather hardcoded into Windows. So, they will work no matter what screen reader you use. Just let me know. 😎✌️

If you could poste a list of the hotkeys that would be awesome

I only know of ctrl N to compose a new email, ctrl shift I to go to inbox and ctr Q to mark as red, oh and ctrl R to reply

Hi,
Here are the keyboard shortcuts in Outlook, new and classic, for those who want them.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/keyboard-shortcuts-for-outlook-3cdeb221-7ae5-4c1d-8c1d-9e63216c1efd
And here's a thread on making Outlook Classic easier to use with a screen reader. I don't know if it'll help with braille displays though.
https://www.applevis.com/forum/windows/configuring-microsoft-outlook-365-work-better-your-windows-screen-reader

Alt S also sends an email, I didn’t know control enter also does, cool

Hi,

I know Tara posted a link above, but just for a quick reference here are the New Outlook hotkeys. This is a copy/paste from a note I keep on my laptop. Enjoy. :)

#########

Outlook (New) for Windows 11
(Works with any screen reader)

Writing email---
Create a new email message:
Ctrl+N or Ctrl+Shift+M
Send this message:
Ctrl+Enter or Alt+S
Reply to this message:
Ctrl+R
Reply all to this message:
Ctrl+Shift+R
Forward this message:
Ctrl+F
Save draft:
Ctrl+S
Discard draft:
Esc
Insert a hyperlink:
Ctrl+K
Exit message editor:
Alt+F10

Email list---
Select/Unselect this message:
Ctrl+Space
Select all messages:
Ctrl+A
Clear all messages:
Esc
Select first message:
Home or Ctrl+Home
Select last message:
End or Ctrl+End
Copy selected messages to the clipboard:
Ctrl+C
Cut selected messages to the clipboard for moving:
Ctrl+X
Paste messages:
Ctrl+V

Read email---
Open this message:
Enter or Space
Open this message in a new window:
Shift+Enter
Close this message:
Esc
Open the next item:
Ctrl+(Period)
Open the previous item:
Ctrl+(Comma)
Expand a conversation:
Right arrow
Collapse a conversation:
Left arrow

Go to---
Go to Mail:
Ctrl+1
Go to Calendar:
Ctrl+2
Go to Co-Pilot:
Ctrl+3
Go to People:
Ctrl+4
Go to Inbox:
Ctrl+Shift+I
Search your email:
Ctrl+E, or F3, or Alt+Q
Open or collapse the left pane:
Alt+F1
Jump Focus (forward):
F6 or Ctrl+Tab
Jump              Focus (backward):
Shift+F6 or Ctrl+Shift+Tab
Navigate to the folder pane:
Ctrl+Y

Email actions---
Print this message:
Ctrl+P
Undo last action:
Ctrl+Z, or Alt+Backspace
Delete this message:
Delete or Ctrl+D
Permanently delete this message:
Shift+Delete
Create new folder:
Ctrl+Shift+E
Mark this message as read:
Ctrl+Q
Mark this message as unread:
Ctrl+U
Flag this message:
Insert
Archive:
Backspace
Mark this message as junk:
Ctrl+J
Zoom in this message:
Ctrl+(Plus) or Ctrl+(Equals)
Zoom out this message:
Ctrl+(Dash) or Ctrl+(Underline)
Reset the zoom of this message:
Ctrl+(0)
Move to a folder:
Ctrl+Shift+V
Ignore:
Ctrl+Delete
Sync (Sent and Received) email:
F9
Quick step shortcut:
Ctrl+Shift+5
Quick step shortcut:
Ctrl+Shift+6
Quick step shortcut:
Ctrl+Shift+7
Quick step shortcut:
Ctrl+Shift+8
Quick step shortcut:
Ctrl+Shift+9

#########

If you use NVDA and Outlook Classic, there is a lovely little add-on that makes life a little easier in terms of navigating the app. Link below. :)

https://github.com/CyrilleB79/outlookExtended

This add-on comes with a host of new hotkeys as well.

I miss so much the metro mail app, it was the closest to the best email client I ever had on windows. Lightwait, no complicated interface, it just worked.

Does anyone have any experience with Mailbird?
https://www.getmailbird.com/

Thanks a lot, Brian, Tara, and Joshua. I'll play around with Outlook and its hotkeys, of which I knew some. So far, I couldn't find the folders for inbox, outbox, sent items, etc., something I had no trouble seeing in the Mail program. Do I need to create them? If I do, I'd find this rather strange.

I should decide the latest this summer whether I stay with Outlook or move on to another mail program.

For the new Outlook, it's just control plus why, to get to your folders.

HTH.

Has anyone tried this one on for size? Mail/contacts/calendars and appears to be a .net app of some sort. On macOS it has blocking issues that can only be the result of the widget set not getting passed through properly, but I'd be strangely unsurprised to find that it worked for Windows users.

And I'm frankly astonished that anyone would love Windows Mail! Simple, yes, but also hideously castrated with essentially no power-user functionality. I would not want that, even though I pity those who're going to get used to the new new Outlook/Monarch. Each to their own and all that.

Microsoft is promoting the new outlook app quite aggressively and huge corporates have already switched to it. Even power users have adapted to it. So, I don't see any reason to pitty anyone. Kind of impressive power Microsoft has in this case, switching majority of user's default Email client in the matter of months.
The new 1 surely needs some polish in terms of accessibility. Noone does Web app accessibility better than Google in my opinion. Since New Outlook app is just a web app, I suppose Microsoft can push far more updates to it in future.
The only thing missing in new outlook for me so far is the RSS feeds integration. The old one did that quite nicely.

I know it's unfashionable to heap on great software for privacy reasons, but that's another consideration for me. The new Outlook operates through a Microsoft backend. That does have advantages in delivering some functionality, like push notifications to services that otherwise don't have it, but it also means you gotta share your email account details with MS. Now if you're happy about that, that's awesome. But Classic Outlook is still doing those connections directly. The new app is much more like the mobile app in this respect.

Yeah I understand that microsoft is agressivly pushing a new email protocol or something along those lines, hence the more processing in their own backend, I get that they have some level of access they previously did not to those accounts or something like that. With gmail, and I fully agree that google are king for web apps accessibility, I never felt the need for a proper desktop email client, and I only used the mail client to access my outlook emails in there.

I simply went with the flow and switched to new outlook from Microsoft mail. When Microsoft mail was available and Microsoft forced Outlook like crazy on me, I'd revert each time to Microsoft mail, but sadly, the support went away and I now use the new outlook and I can compose and read mails, which is all I need, so I'm fine in that respect.
To rad mails, you can focus on the mail and press f6 to go to the reading pain, rather than pressing enter. That's simply another method.

I low-key hate web apps--I know they're the norm, now, but if I wanted to go to a website to accomplish my work I'd go to a website. I want something that works more smoothly, without clutter. Up until fairly recently I was using Postbox and loving every minute of it--rarely have I seen a program that was at once so simple and also allowed me to set up some amazing advanced filters. However, they recently sold to emClient, which I think could be workable save for the fact that when emails open, they open in new windows rather than new tabs and this personally drives me a bit mad. I think I'll end up going back to Thunderbird or Betterbird. Also, to be clear, I'm totally aware that my things about not wanting web interfaces/wanting messages in new tabs instead of windows is totally user preference--nothing wrong with either of these ways of being if they work for you! :) Just saying that my quest for the perfect Windows mail client continues.

@Sebby,

In my defense, when I started using Windows again, that is to say post-blindness, Windows Mail was what I learned to use with Windows 10, which was in turn BootCamped on my (then( brand new shiny MacBook Pro. Running something like... Yosemite, if memory serves.
Ah, Yosemite ... *eye twitch*

Of course I had to re-learn Windows, because at this point I think I had been using OS X exclusively for about 3 or 4 years, at that point in time.

For now I'm comfortable enough with the new Outlook, but I am always open to new email clients.
Never been a big fan of web apps, but to each their own ...

Thanks all for your input on this matter.
Yes, privacy is a concern for me, which may have me stay clear of New Outlook and move to a different email program. Just need to do more homework.
But thanks, Brian, for the tip re: finding the folders in (old) Outlook.