Here's a suggestion inspired by the bug tracker section of the website and complaints about it. Just as VoiceOver stuttering on iOS 17 is not included among noticed bugs there, the apps we find inaccessible or difficult to use are just uninstalled without getting archived on this website. We even have accessibility ratings that we specify when posting app entries, and we create posts and threads discussing accessibility and possible workarounds, including attempts to get in touch with developers, but this is not done in a systematic manner. We therefore need a dedicated accessibility tracker section with the following:
1. Accessibility rating
2. Problems and possible solutions/workarounds
3. Any attempts to contact the developer and replies received
The accessibility ratings that already exist should be copied to this section, while those that do not exist should be added. Our collective effort should soon forge an unprecedented archive and help us push developers for better accessibility instead of deleting more and more apps in frustration.
Here's one such game that is mostly accessible already, but the back button is not accessible: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/football-owner-2/id1391555631
This is one of several apps that have managed to remain installed on my device, which is why I am posting its App Store link. If I were to rummage through my installed app history, I might even come up with hundreds of such apps that I had to uninstall from my device.
By Enes Deniz, 24 January, 2024
Forum
Accessibility Advocacy
Comments
Accessibility is so fickle
What I find accessible someone else might not and vice versa. I'd love a bit more advanced categories of discussion happen on here. I'm no expert by any means. yet wading through a podcast where the user is told, one finger double tap to open, when the speech has already communicated this drives me a bit over the edge. i'd love to see the Mac get a helping hand up in non-app store downloads. Yes it is safer for people to use what apple's said is ok to distribute, however I'd like the idea of actually helping out a developer on a website with a free or nominal fee app purchase so even though apple gets it's chunk, the developer is supported. Kinda like when you support your favorite bands by buying from their store, not just the all inclusive iTunes. It's pretty easy to install an app that's not from the app store. Now that i've said that, I am not having much luck installing an app but that's down to my inefficiency from not following the steps one by one. I think I need to be talked through it. The app is the pain in my butt VOCR which I'd love to have on here. That's on my plate though and I admit, I',m the issue here. There is a contributor on here who does sort of expect you know how to use your device, so I'm happy they contribute in such a way. Of course, I recognize everyone's learning style is different.
Agree
I get so fed up and tired of having to report bugs with absolutely everything I do. I’m really talking about the Mac more than the iPhoen. It just feels like I am never allowed the time to just enjoy using it any more. So I am definitely up for the idea of trying to collaborate a bit more because it would allow us to share the burdon a bit, and also allow us to add weight behind something.
I’d like the bug tracker on here to be opened up. Even if it’s just for iOS and MacOs bugs it would be good if we could keep track of when the bug started, how many times it has been reported, what severity it has, how many people it affects etc. I’ve no idea when I reported bugs to Apple, but it would add more weight if we could say a bug had been open for x years and been acknowledged by this number of people. I realise you aren’t specifically talking about Apple bugs. But I guess the same rules apply. I think sometimes it also helps just having someone else confirm it because it’s easy to take these things a bit personally.
I agree about there being a bit of a grey area, but I also think that a platform has a certain way of working which sets expectations. So if you can work around something that doesn’t mean that you should have to. If VO+right won’t work but tab will for something, I can probably get used to it, but it’s a bug. If there’s an unimportant unlabelled button or image I can safely ignore, it’s a bug. Just because I’m blind doesn’t mean I can’t desire a decent, consistent user experience just like a sighted person.
But I also accept that, particularly when you are new to a screen reader, it is very hard to know what is a bug vs something you just don’t; know how to do yet. A bug tracker in a friendly place like this might be a good way to help differentiate between the two. That would be much better than launching onto a third party apps’ forum when you don’t know what you are doing.
Regarding the comment about podcasts, I agree that many people don’t really know how to do a demo with a screen reader. They feel like they should be speaking but can just feebly repeat what has already been said. But if that was the worst thing about using a screen reader I’d be a much happier person.
Re: Accessibility is so fickle
While I do have a fair amount of technical knowledge, I am by no means a professional developer either, which actually has nothing to do with my suggestion, as all it takes is use an app and review it in terms of accessibility. If you're going to claim that everyone's take on an app's accessibility and overall user experience is different, then you should probably have to ignore all the relevant posts and even the accessibility ratings I mentioned earlier. There are times when one person's statements are contested by those of someone else, and there are also times when accessibility ratings get updated not only because the app becomes more or less accessible but also because the current/former ratings are deemed not to match the actual situation and therefore changed. Do keep in mind that these do not make us refrain from sharing our experiences, which, by contrast, helps us exchange information and opinions, including tips and workarounds. This actually helps us get a better overview of how accessible certain apps we (would like to) use are, definitely as opposed to what you claim. If you think your findings are more accurate and wish to object to the accessibility ratings provided here, then you're but encouraged to do so. If you, on the other hand, think that someone else may have provided more accurate reviews, then, yet again, you're but encouraged to make use of them instead of ignoring them.
Haven't Reported Many Bugs But...
I like this idea and hope it can be implemented on the site. I think it would allow for more and better collaboration with Apple.
Let me clarify a point:
While I was talking about third-party apps, a bug tracker open to user contributions also sounds reasonable, by which I actually mean we should have both. By the way, Opera, Telegram and Sider are some of the other apps that I can't use conveniently.
Concur with OP
Hi,
I'm Brian, and I approve this message. 🤨
Food for thought
Thank you for taking the time to offer this suggestion. I'm certainly open to considering ways that we could improve the bug reporting and tracking functionality on AppleVis so will give some thought to what's been said in this thread.
When the Bug Tracker was first introduced, it originally had a button allowing people to easily report if they were also impacted by a bug. The number of people was displayed on bug entry pages. The intention was to give a indication of how widespread issues were. Unfortunately, engagement with this specific feature was extremely low at the time. As a result, the numbers displayed on bug entries were not an accurate representation of the given bug's true reach (I don't recall any bug entry which had more than a couple of people report that they were encountering the bug). I therefore decided after a couple of years to remove this element to avoid potentially misleading impressions, particularly for people using this information to inform their decision on whether to update the software on their iPhone or Mac.
I'm certainly open to new ideas. However, as the above example demonstrated, any system is only as good as the community participation behind it. Our previous limited attempt did not gain traction and showed how gathering accurate, up-to-date user generated data is a challenge. Get it wrong, and the result can potentially do more harm than good.
Interesting but tricky
I hate sounding harsh and judgemental, but you don't have to look too far around here to find people who misunderstand how something is supposed to work or don't take the time to determine whether something they are experiencing is actually a bug rather than operator error or expected behavior.
How many times do we hear people saying that an OS update has introduced a new bug, only for someone to suggest that they restart their device, and this resolves the problem.
How many times do people find that resetting the settings on their iPhone resolves a number of issues that they had thought were bugs? I include myself here, as my latest reset resolved at least 3 minor issues that I had thought were bugs.
There are also plenty of examples of people posting an app to the site and never updating the entry, despite people commenting that an update to the app has either improved or degraded accessibility of the app. In the case of the latter, I know that the editorial team has a mechanism in place to ask the OP to review their entry, as I've been on the receiving end of an email! 🙉
All of the above to say that I would have major concerns about the reliability of any user-generated information unless there was some form of checks in place to ensure that the information is accurate and up-to-date. Sadly, I have no suggestions as to how any such checks could be implemented. Interesting discussion, though.
Why do I have to explain it over and over?
Let me thank Brian for reminding that the original post was about something other than the bug tracker. I do consider discussing the possibility of opening the bug tracker to user contributions to be beneficial, but my first post was about something else. I suggested an accessibility tracker where only one rating could be sufficient if accurate and more users can rate each app. It's like the quarterstar scale on the App Store where four 5 stars, one 3 stars and one 1 star would make the overall rating 24 divided by 6=4 stars. We already have accessibility ratings that do get updated for some apps from time to time but are mostly accurate enough. Furthermore, adding an accessibility tracker section will gather all the accessibility-related information in one place, attracting more attention and making it easier for us to browse through the apps grouped according to their accessibility ratings. Perhaps someone will find an app rated as "totally inaccessible" there and still want to download and test it, finding out that it has become accessible. Or perhaps someone will like an app so much that (s)he will decide to get in touch with the developer, or find some workaround and post it for everyone else to benefit from. There should also be other categories like free, paid, and free with in-app purchases that make it easier for everyone to browse for free or paid apps only. I remember that we used to have more information shown under the app while browsing through apps without having to click an app's link. This should also be back.