It had all those issues until last friday for me as well; but now whatever the response is I can read it with voiceover without needing to refresh the page.
What I just realized is that VoiceOver still skips some list items if there’s a list in ChatGPT’s response. Another problem is VoiceOver announcing groups that aren’t actually groups; it’s just the written ChatGPT response. But this is much better than being unable to read the response entirely without refreshing the page.
It's always been this behaviour since 15.4 for me, reads the main text but not lists or sub-lists or whatever they are.
As I say, I don't think anything can have changed as it's a voiceover safari issue brought on by 15.4 which apple are aware of and working on, rather than being an issue with the website itself. Maybe the way chat GPT is formatting answers has changed? Maybe, thinking about it, we could instruct it not to use bullet lists? I might have a go at that later.
For me, I've wasn't able to read the response at all until last friday, now the issue is mostly gone; it's just lists that are kind of still problematic.
Odd. I think they're constantly updating how Chat GPT responds. I think the issue, at the heart of it, remains, as I say, no improvement in VO, but the way chat GPT responds does change, using different formatting.
Basically, I'm saying it's apple's screw up, not open AI's. Apple need, yet again, to take a long hard look at the only screen reader available on mac and their own web browser which is no doubt the most used app on a computer. It's baffling how inept this all is. People should be fired and engineers brought in to fix this mess. It's exhausting.
After updating to macOS 15.5 beta 4, the problem still occurs, although now the responses from GPT are accessible partially. The issue still occurs even when the GPT response is not formatted as a list, but when it's just a text.
Totally annoyed, I sent them today a rather long report describing the whole situation. BTW, I also mentioned the poor optimization of the GPT app on macOS for VoiceOver and its various other shortcomings taking into account the inaccessibility of the sidebar and thus the conversation history, projects or Custom GPTs. In the web version, projects used to be more accessible and now they aren't actually at all.
But, I also completely agree that open AI needs to step up with accessibility on both it's web version and native apps. I've never been able to work out how to use canvas and assume it is utterly inaccessible.
It's definitely VoiceOver specific and interconnected with an issue that prevents VoiceOver from accessing elements in one navigation order (from top to bottom) in DOM navigation mode. WebKit experience is full of bugs regarding accessibility, unfortunately, with some of them are long-standing issues, and some are fixed for a few months and then come back.
I'm using Chrome. I've seen a lot of changes in how I'm able to navigate, read, and not read ChatGPT's output. I get very different results whether I navigate forward or backward. My usual strategy is to use the VO+U web rotor, Form Controls menu to find the Copy button so I can paste the text for review in another app.
ChatGPT seems to format its output with markdown. The problem is that the server isn't converting from markdown to html, so all the raw markdown syntax is presented to the user, such as asterisks for emphasis and hashtag symbols for headings. The screen reader verbalizes the markdown, which impedes comprehension. Does anyone know a way to turn it off?
I've found I can tell ChatGPT to turn it off, which is partially effective for the remainder of the current conversation. But this isn't a setting it remembers.
Can you set it in the app, personalisation, ask for clean copy?
I agree, it's quite frustrating. It would be good if there was a way we could specify the format of output which might, in the short term, fix this issue.
As of macOS Sequoia 15.5, may 21st.
I haven't done anything but the issue with VO is completely gone, even bullet list. Don't need to refresh the page anymore after each prompt.
EDIT: I was again too early. Partially gone, in a random list of 6 elements it reads only the first and last element... Very weird.
yes it now works as expected and the accessibility is progressed a lot in chatgpt. I did not need to refresh the page and even navigate sections when in a proper conversation. So there are bug fixes introduced for sure.
I want to start by noting that I can read the plain text output, but I still have problems with the lists, so the issue isn't resolved for me yet. I'm still on macOS 15.4.1, though. What I don't understand is, during all this time we've had these bugs with the ChatGPT website using VoiceOver on Safari, Windows/NVDA users or even Chrome users on Mac didn’t have this issue. So, I understand this is likely a problem with WebKit, or whatever engine Safari/VoiceOver uses. But then—what fixed the issue, and who did it? Did OpenAI release an update specifically for VoiceOver users on Safari? Apple couldn’t have done it, since they haven’t released a software update or anything else that could have fixed it. So who's to blame?
So I had cleared my history and cache.
I have tried with single and multiple tabs (well 2 tabs actually ).
Till now it is working. And yes it absolutely needed refresh before I upgraded the OS today.
I have never used gpt on Safari, only on iOS through the app, and as a PWA on Windows. And from the sound of it, I made the right call not even attempting it on the mac with how buggy it can get from day to day.
Comments
I really, really hope you…
I really, really hope you are right on this one.
Still here, it's bullet…
Still here, it's bullet lists that aren't reading. A refresh is still required.
Incredibly strange...
It had all those issues until last friday for me as well; but now whatever the response is I can read it with voiceover without needing to refresh the page.
Oh, that is odd. Does safari…
Oh, that is odd. Does safari update in the background or is it tied to the mac os release?
It could also be that I"m in the UK and might be using a different server. Not sure.
It does seem odd that it would be a fix from open AI's side as there was nothing broken there, it only happened because of the mac os update to 15.4.
Oh noo...
What I just realized is that VoiceOver still skips some list items if there’s a list in ChatGPT’s response. Another problem is VoiceOver announcing groups that aren’t actually groups; it’s just the written ChatGPT response. But this is much better than being unable to read the response entirely without refreshing the page.
Yay.
Yay.
It's always been this…
It's always been this behaviour since 15.4 for me, reads the main text but not lists or sub-lists or whatever they are.
As I say, I don't think anything can have changed as it's a voiceover safari issue brought on by 15.4 which apple are aware of and working on, rather than being an issue with the website itself. Maybe the way chat GPT is formatting answers has changed? Maybe, thinking about it, we could instruct it not to use bullet lists? I might have a go at that later.
@theBlindGuy07?
Wait, is the issue mostly gone for you as well?
@Oliver
For me, I've wasn't able to read the response at all until last friday, now the issue is mostly gone; it's just lists that are kind of still problematic.
Odd. I think they're…
Odd. I think they're constantly updating how Chat GPT responds. I think the issue, at the heart of it, remains, as I say, no improvement in VO, but the way chat GPT responds does change, using different formatting.
Basically, I'm saying it's apple's screw up, not open AI's. Apple need, yet again, to take a long hard look at the only screen reader available on mac and their own web browser which is no doubt the most used app on a computer. It's baffling how inept this all is. People should be fired and engineers brought in to fix this mess. It's exhausting.
Unfortunately, i've stil this problem!
After updating to macOS 15.5 beta 4, the problem still occurs, although now the responses from GPT are accessible partially. The issue still occurs even when the GPT response is not formatted as a list, but when it's just a text.
Totally annoyed, I sent them today a rather long report describing the whole situation. BTW, I also mentioned the poor optimization of the GPT app on macOS for VoiceOver and its various other shortcomings taking into account the inaccessibility of the sidebar and thus the conversation history, projects or Custom GPTs. In the web version, projects used to be more accessible and now they aren't actually at all.
It's just terrible to me!
The non-reading issue is…
The non-reading issue is safari and voiceover specific (works in chromium browsers), so also contact:
[email protected]
But, I also completely agree that open AI needs to step up with accessibility on both it's web version and native apps. I've never been able to work out how to use canvas and assume it is utterly inaccessible.
It's back
It's back guys, this is soooooo weird.
It's definitely VoiceOver…
It's definitely VoiceOver specific and interconnected with an issue that prevents VoiceOver from accessing elements in one navigation order (from top to bottom) in DOM navigation mode. WebKit experience is full of bugs regarding accessibility, unfortunately, with some of them are long-standing issues, and some are fixed for a few months and then come back.
Not just Safari
I'm using Chrome. I've seen a lot of changes in how I'm able to navigate, read, and not read ChatGPT's output. I get very different results whether I navigate forward or backward. My usual strategy is to use the VO+U web rotor, Form Controls menu to find the Copy button so I can paste the text for review in another app.
The coppy button
No need to reach for the coppy button all the time, do command plus shift plus C instead and the output will be copied!
Any way to turn off formatting?
I apologize for this slight tangent.
ChatGPT seems to format its output with markdown. The problem is that the server isn't converting from markdown to html, so all the raw markdown syntax is presented to the user, such as asterisks for emphasis and hashtag symbols for headings. The screen reader verbalizes the markdown, which impedes comprehension. Does anyone know a way to turn it off?
I've found I can tell ChatGPT to turn it off, which is partially effective for the remainder of the current conversation. But this isn't a setting it remembers.
Can you set it in the app,…
Can you set it in the app, personalisation, ask for clean copy?
I agree, it's quite frustrating. It would be good if there was a way we could specify the format of output which might, in the short term, fix this issue.
Gone now on safari
As of macOS Sequoia 15.5, may 21st.
I haven't done anything but the issue with VO is completely gone, even bullet list. Don't need to refresh the page anymore after each prompt.
EDIT: I was again too early. Partially gone, in a random list of 6 elements it reads only the first and last element... Very weird.
Just checked here too, UK,…
Just checked here too, UK, and seems to be resolved. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the update.
Happy to note that it works perfectly.
yes it now works as expected and the accessibility is progressed a lot in chatgpt. I did not need to refresh the page and even navigate sections when in a proper conversation. So there are bug fixes introduced for sure.
The thing messes with me...
I want to start by noting that I can read the plain text output, but I still have problems with the lists, so the issue isn't resolved for me yet. I'm still on macOS 15.4.1, though. What I don't understand is, during all this time we've had these bugs with the ChatGPT website using VoiceOver on Safari, Windows/NVDA users or even Chrome users on Mac didn’t have this issue. So, I understand this is likely a problem with WebKit, or whatever engine Safari/VoiceOver uses. But then—what fixed the issue, and who did it? Did OpenAI release an update specifically for VoiceOver users on Safari? Apple couldn’t have done it, since they haven’t released a software update or anything else that could have fixed it. So who's to blame?
Just updated to the mac OS 15.5 and the issue still exist
Yeah... Great!
It's inconsistent... Which…
It's inconsistent... Which seems to be the the consistent behaviour.
Still working for me, but may be
So I had cleared my history and cache.
I have tried with single and multiple tabs (well 2 tabs actually ).
Till now it is working. And yes it absolutely needed refresh before I upgraded the OS today.
I emptied the cache, and the issue is gone now.
Title says it all... I hope it never comes back again.
I have never used gpt on…
I have never used gpt on Safari, only on iOS through the app, and as a PWA on Windows. And from the sound of it, I made the right call not even attempting it on the mac with how buggy it can get from day to day.
Explain what you mean by…
Explain what you mean by emptying the cash, is this deleting history from the safari menu?
@Oliver
If you enable the developer tools on safari; you'll find the option in safari menu/develop/empty cache...