By ming, 20 September, 2019 Forum iOS and iPadOS Gaming anyone join the apple arcade yet? any good an playable games in there? Options Log in or register to post comments Comments Thought about it I didn't only because I don't want to get charged the subscription fee if I forget to cancel on time. free trial I think it has one month for free trial right? sadly sadly, it doesn't have it in Hong Kong yet! hopefully we can have it soon! Yes one month I'm sure it will roll out soon. I might jump the gun and try it. I don't know. Unfortunate news Hello, Unfortunately none of the games in Apple Arcade are accessible. I read a tweet about this from a gamer on twitter a couple of days ago. He went thru all the games so far and none are accessible. Not accessible. None of the games so far are accessible. Some of the games do that thing where voiceover gestures are passed through to the app, but the game still isn't playable. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come from Apple, because this worries me. If they release one thing with their name, and approval, stamped on it, that isn't accessible, and we don't ask them about it, and point out its inaccessibility, I'm afraid that they'll start pulling back from us. But Apple TV Plus is said to be accessible, so hopefully it will be. But, the trailers for Apple Arcade had audio descriptions, and yet the games weren't accessible. I've emailed Apple Accessibility about Apple Arcade, so we'll see what happens. audio described trailers for apple arcade games Hi, Where can I watch the audio described trailers for the apple events such as the apple arcade games and apple tv shows? Thanks for any help. Re: Apple Arcade Anyone? Greetings folks, I wanted to jump in here to help provide a little perspective. While it is true that the games of Apple Arcade aren't accessible, this is not Apple's fault. Apple is simply providing Apple Arcade for developers and consumers. It's a cheaper way for consumers to access a bunch of games, and it's a way for developers to get their games some attention. Technically, Apple Arcade itself, just being a new section of the app store, is fully accessible. That's where Apple's part of this ends. It is not their responsibility to make games that they didn't create accessible to us. Accessibility or lack thereof lies with the individual developers of these games. That said, we are in an age now where accessibility is a much larger concern. Many, many developers are beginning to pay attention to accessibility of all types. I suspect that, with time, games we are able to play will appear in Apple Arcade naturally, as blind accessibility becomes more widely-adopted. Until then, though, if there's a game you really want to play, the right move is to contact the developer of that game, as we've done with many games on IOS, and see how they respond. Just my 2 cents, folks. Correction Hi! You are implying that Apple is simply providing Arcade as a platform but is not involved with the games themselves. I'm sorry to have to point out that this is a glaring case of lock of research. On the Apple Arcade website for developers, we find: "We’re not only backing these visionaries, our team is working closely with them to realize the games of their dreams." The link, for your reference, is: https://developer.apple.com/apple-arcade/ Cheers Perry I hate to be this guy, but I hate to be this guy, but that doesn't mean what you think it does. Helping the developers "realize the games of their dreams" doesn't equate to actually, literally helping develop the game. Apple likely provied money, as well as tools to ensure compatibility with all devices. SDK's and such. So OK, while you're right that they were somewhat involved, my statement still completely stands. It is still not Apple's responsibility to make these games accessible. Even with this little bit of involvement, the games are not Apple's games. I also think it is only the platform Apple arcade is only the platform. It does not necessarily mean that all games will be accessible. The way I see it, it will always depend solely on the developers. You're exactly right here. You're exactly right here. Apple provides the tools to make the games accessible. it's up to the devs of these apps to make it usable. I won't hold my breath on this yet. But Apple could force game But Apple could force game developers to make them accessible by entering this new rule, in order to be part of the platform the game must be accessible. In this way the developers will be obliged to make them accessible otherwise they will be excluded from the platform. That's what we have to ask Apple! That is no way to win the That is no way to win the fight for accessibility. That statement is too broad. I assume you're specifically refering to blind accessibility, and if that is the only requirement, that in itself is exclusionary thinking. What about those with cognative impairments, motor impairments, and so on? Where does this accessibility requirement draw its line? Furtehemore, it doesn't create good will not to give developers a chioie. The best thing we can do is educate developers, and allow them to reach these decisions on their own. it takes longer, but it's the better approach IMO. Games! It’s unrealistic to want all games to be accessible. Cost, technology, and longevity play into some of that. I think Apple missed the mark by not having accessible options from the start. Along with hyping those options. It’s good optics, and shows dedication within all platforms. I hope Apple, and developers will step up and find the value of inclusion. You can count on Apple getting an earful with the current options. Not a single game is pretty pitiful. Just my opinion! My thoughts To post 13, that is no way to advocate for accessibility. As post 14 said, what about other people with other disabilities? That‘s exclusion. Also, consider the reaction of the abled community. They would be understandably outraged. Forcing game developers to make their games accessible and then not letting them develop anything if they refuse to comply with the rules Would not get a good reaction out of the community that we are trying to convince to make games accessible. Not all games can be made accessible, and that’s OK. Not all of them have to be. Apple and responsibility Apple definitely has some level of responsibility in my opinion. I wonder if they even made the game developers aware of accessibility guidelines at all when developing these titles. I'm honestly kind of disappointed that we won't be able to use this service, and like others hope this trend doesn't continue. I also think if things don't I also think if things don't change soon, we need to reach out to apples accessibility team and see what's going on. I think Apple needs to at least test for all accessibility features before allowing games into this platform, and if the game is found to not work with those features, this fact needs to be stated on the product page. It's ridiculous that in 2019 we're still having this conversation in my opinion. Things should have changed a long time ago. Technically, they don’t have Technically, they don’t have to. All they have to do is make sure that the platform is accessible, but they don’t have to help developers or even let them know about the accessibility guidelines. I say we asked developers of accessible games to see if they can go into Apple arcade. Games like six ages, King Of Dragon pass, crafting kingdom, and games that the community generally likes. Why? Why are we settling for titles we already know. The whole point of this platform is to have games that are not in the regular App Store. Why aren't we pushing the envelope? Why aren't we asking for more? Because if games that we like Because if games that we like are inducted into Apple arcade, it will let the mainstream know that accessible games do exist. While I understand your logic While I understand your logic, if these games were included in Arcade, they would most likely no longer be able to be purchased from the App Store. This is an obvious issue because if people didn’t want Arcade but wanted to play these games, they wouldn't be able to obtain them. I really think it's time to push for more accessibility in main stream titles. I certainly don't think everything could be made accessible, (at least not yet) but I'm pretty sure a lot of touch based games could work pretty well. I really don't understand why Apple isn't pushing for more from the developers for Arcade, and it annoys me a little bit to think that they are settling for inaccessibility when they are usually really innovative in this area. The Arcade has 1 mostly accessible game "Hello. While I do agree that Apple needs more accessible gamesin Apple Arcade, I don't think we should jump ship immediately. I found 1 game which is mostly accessible but has some issues. It is called Dear Reader and is a casual word game. The object is to fill in missing words from popular literature passages of public domain books. The issue is the blank words are in blue and it is hard at first read to figure out where the blanks are located in the passage. At the bottom of each screen, there is a selection of between 2 and 4 words to insert in the passage. Inserting thethe words is done by the 1 finger double tap gesture. After browsing through the new VO settings in iOS 13, I found commands which relate to text attributes, such as move to next color. Those were listed when looking in the touch gesture commands. I tried setting up an activity to read the blanked words in a different voice, but there were no attribute settings in Activities. I can still play Dear Reader independently, but it takes a bit more time for me to figure out which words are missing. The The game is usable if one can fight through these issues. I have left a review in the Arcade mentioning the accessibility issues. If they are addressed, then Dear Reader could be the only accessible game in Apple Arcade. Hopefully more mainstream developers will add accessibility in their games as well. I think asking for all games I think asking for all games to be accessible is an unreasonable request. Asking for some promotion of accessibility tools in the Arcade documentation, or specifically soliciting a developer willing to commit to accessibility, however, seems a quite reasonable request that could be made of Apple. I'd be glad if there was a I'd be glad if there was a grading for accessibility that resides in the app store for all apps. I know here is a great resource but it would also be nice to browse " "Accessible" apps and games, whether that is a stamp awarded by Apple or judged beyond the standard ratings by users. This would also push the concept of accessibility more into the mainstream. Of course, I'm specifically talking about voiceover access ability but that could extend further into Apple's suite of universal access solutions. Re: Accessibility Ratings from Apple While it would be nice to have accessibility ratings, this opens up a whole new can of worms. For instance, if a company makes their app accessible to the blind, another disability group such as the deaf may claim the app is inaccessible to them because it uses sounds and not visual effects. Vise versa, if an app or game is made accessible to those with cognitive issues, a blind person can say that the app is inaccessible to them. In either case, the company who made the app initially is stuck because they followed the guidelines and made it accessible to a group of users. They had done what was asked of them. Granted, this is not a perfect example, but I can see it happening if Apple releases mandates that apps and games must be accessible. A greater question is what to do with all of the highly visual apps in which may be a challenge to make accessible, such as drawing games. It can and dos happen. For It can and dos happen. For example the twitter app which works grate for us does not for the deaf blind as the braille layout is just plane horable so I've heard. So accessibility for all is nice but not very doable in my humble opinion. In reply to 26 and 27.In reply to 26 and 27. In my original comment and #25 as well, it was never said that it should only be for the blind. In my comment, I specifically said “all” accessibility features, meaning for multiple disabilities. I'm not saying that apps need to work with absolutely every single accessibility feature that exists in the OS. I think that Apple should test for all accessibility features, then on the product page list which specific features the game works with. I agree with Oliver that it should be in the App Store as well, and I think Apple really needs to do more in this area. Please read comments more carefully before replying to them in the future. Thanks. I imagine some sort of button I imagine some sort of button you can hit in the app store labeled accessibilityfeatures" and it will have a list such as shortcuts, voiceover, captions, etc dependent on the app... kind of like how such information is included in movie descriptions, like audio descriptions, subtitles" and so on. I agree that a universal badge that says that something is accessible is not practical, but accessibility features should be included in app descriptions by now. And, back to the OP, this would highlight accessibility and make it far easier for us to bind workable games. Some developers already include such notes in updates so it would be good to have them in the main descriptions. Simple idea I guess, but it might have quite a profound effect on how developers are viewed and want to be viewed. Maybe we ask developers directly to list such things, it is in their interest after all to show it off, an an absence speaks volumes. " We could try that, but how We could try that, but how many devs would actually be willing to do this? Not many I would guess. I know crafting kingdom would be willing to do this and dice world and maybe audio wizards, but those are the only 3 I can think of out of all the games i play. I'm just spitballing here, I'm just spitballing here, but that is only games. Speak to app developers in general and a lot of them, the big ones especially, will be keen to show off their inclusivity Of Most businesss on twitter are keen for feedback about their apps and increasing their accessability, so it's not that much of a step to ask them to include the fact that it is voiceover compatible ... What other apps could you think of, aside from games? What do you think would induce developers to include accessibility in their description? Could we, as a community award an apple vis rosette to developers who are pushing their accessability? The other side of it would be to ask apple to include the accessability feature set when developers submit the description for their apps. Possibly both approaches would be good. I don't know, prefer to get actionable ideas roling rather than the endless debate on what should and shouldn't be accessible as it doesn't get us anywhere. Developers should be incentivised to build in accessibility such as voiceover compatibility into their apps, if it is a marketable feature that adds to their brand image, everyone wins. . The only problem is some apps The only problem is some apps are accessible by accident, so they might not have that in their app description Blind Entitlement In response to comments 13 through 17. I'm sorry, but that's the exact attitude that gives the disabled community, or more specifically, the blind community as a whole a very bad name. Expecting developers to cater to your, quite frankly, unrealistic expectations is arrogant and conceited to say the least. While it would be nice for game developers to add accessibility features, you need to keep in mind the market they're developing for. That being the sighted market. Yes, there are some devs that specifically target the blind/low vision crowd, and yes, they're few and far between. But rather than being grateful for what you've got, you're demanding that EVERY developer be held to this standard, which is just not practical. Apple has zero responsibility in regard to ensuring that every program that gets approved and shipped to the app store meets the accessibility guidelines. Their responsibility stops at what they, themselves develop. So rather than trying to bend the world to your desires, accept that there are some things that you can't have, make do with what you have and move on. True that some are voiceover True that some are voiceover compatible without the developer specifically intending it but that's because of the baked in framework. Things like text editors are going to be accessible with voice over for the most part, but I think the point is to highlight that apps can be accessible. I Dunno. I'm unsubscribing from this chat though. it's getting a bit fruitlessly combatant, which is a shame. " The dark side of gratitude In response to #33: Being grateful for what one has does not preempt one from wanting more. People who make the world a better place are usually satisfied with some things while at the same time being dissatisfied with others. In addition, commanding people to be grateful is just as ridiculous as commanding someone to be hungry, to fall in love with you, or to spontaneously begin to love grapefruit juice if they previously hated it. You are making more category errors than I could comfortably shake a stick at. Passion and desire are the rungs of the ladder which leads us to higher ground. Gratitude is the foundation on which that ladder is standing. We are not entitled. We are deserving. And we know it. Don't be afraid to fight. Don't let anyone brainwash you into feeling guilty for wanting more. Cheers Perry Scorpion In response to Scorpion and #33. No way was my response entitled. Mine was #15. I did say it was a shame that Apple didn’t highlight accessible games. I also began with the unrealistic goals of wanting all games accessible. I suggest you read something correctly before chastising a post. commenting on 33 I just want to say here scorpion that was very wrong of you to post that comment about people being entitled clearly you have not been in the app store and have seen the lack of games that people have in this community. sorry, but not all of us want crap like card games, dice games, and text only based games month after month after month. all some of want is the ability to play a main stream game that everyone else on IOS gets to play and to be able to play right along side our sited counterparts in that regard. I'm sick and tired of the be grateful for what we have and we shouldn't push for more inclusive gaming experiences. sorry, but you couldn't pay me to buy any of the blindfold junk that seems to come out every single month. sited people wouldn't even play that, and role something like that out to them, and see how fast they leave the app store in droves. why should we be subjected to this kind of lack luster gaming experience just because we can't see, or have other disabilities? it's beyond ridiculous and it's high time we start pushing main stream devs to include us, and not exclude us. Agree with 37! I’m a handi-capable person. Intelligent, ambitious, and capable. There’s nothing wrong with wanting more. Why should I settle for less than a sighted person. By all means, settle if you’d like. All games can’t be accessible, but many can with visionary developers. My fight is never entitled. I will not ever just lay down and just say I’m ok with less than my potential. I pity the ones who are ok with status quo. There’s a way to be an advocate, but understanding there’s limits. There needs to be communication between our community and developers. Approach is definitely key. That’s not entitled, but contributing to the human experience. Also, well said Brandon Armstrong. gaming I would like to say thanks to the person that agrees with me. while I understand that there are limits on accessibility and gaming, why should we as people with disabilities settle for less of a gaming experience. I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face. role something like a blindfold title out to sited people, and you will see how fast they leave the app store in droves, and some may ask why would they do this? the simple fact is people who can see don't have this kind of lack luster gaming experience. they don't want junk like we get endlessly in the app store and even on mainstream consoles. put it this way, if EA sports can make madden accessible then their is absolutely no reason why we can't expand that kind of gaming experience to the app store on iOS. Like I said in my last post I'm sick to death of the junk that roles out of devs like blindfold games in the app store and card games and dice games. I commend the devs who attempt and get a game like audio wizards out and put an effort into making an enjoyable gaming experience for us all. that's the kind of gaming I want to see in the app store, not junk like blindfold games and endless numbers of card and dice games. I'm sorry folks, but just because I have a disability doesn't mean I should settle for less of a gaming experience then my sited counterpart. Let's not bash the blindfold games Hi! The blindfold games are not mainstream, and were never meant to be. That, along with the fact that some of them may be called minimalist, does not imply that they are bad per se. There's a place and a target group for them, and I'm sure they are bringing a lot of joy to blind kids everywhere, which is more than what can be achieved by complaining alone. We need to find a workable combination between supporting what exists, and planting the seeds of what doesn't exist yet. Cheers Perry So, if you got folks on an So, if you got folks on an XBox being able to play games ‘decently” via the use of OCR with a Windows screen reader, and folks are also trying to play sighted games via an Android screen reader with OCR (I won’t mention its name here for the 3rd time), why can’t VoiceOver implement A ‘virtual screen” feature for the same thing? Several people on here (including myself) have been wanting that on the IOS side. I mean, you can play ‘Final Fantasy Record Keeper” for the most part... Hmmm, I should try GTA some day. Not necessarily for the missions, I just like picking up people and making sure I don’t crash into things. Well, ok, maybe I ‘do” like doing that sort of thing... I think we should try and I think we should try and start a conversation with main stream devs. Pokimon go, I'm looking at you, again. Also, I agree. I've ben playing gears 5, and madden, and killer instinct. I think right now the xox has more accessible games than iOs will ever have, and I mean mainstream games, not the crud blind fold puts out. I don't ven see many kids playing that stuff as they want to play mortal kombat on their phones etc. a bit of off topic well, this Forum: topic is one of the trending post.... I am glad Hello, it is unreasonable to Hello, it is unreasonable to expect that all game developers will make their apps accessible. First, some of them by their nature are very visual and likely can't be made accessible. Second, even if they could be made accessible, it costs a lot of money to develop apps, and making a game accessible is more challenging than making just the typical app accessible, so this would involve a lot of resources which many developers simply do not have. Too many blind people, hell too many people in general, have an entitlement complex and think that just because they want something, they should get it. I would love to see more accessible games, but I would also be willing to pay an additional cost for the accessibility, which even then probably wouldn't cover it since we are a small community. I think that we need to accept the reality that games simply are not going to be accessible most of the time, unless it's someone who specializes in creating games for the blind. A cool, fast-action shooter, anyone? This is totally possible all through sound and I've been wanting one of these ever since we only used our desktop computers to play games. games do you know how sick to death i get off hearing this same lame excuse of games can't be made accessible? don't hand me that line because EA sports is making accessible games. look at madden. I'm tired of the defeatist attitude of we should except less of a gaming experience just because we have disabilities. Re: Entitlement complex @44 first of all, you're attacking a straw man. Nobody, except maybe the very foolish, believes that all games can be made accessible, and this has been pointed out here before so it's not even new. Secondly, impertinently diagnosing people with complexes is way below the standard of rhetoric I'm usually seeing here. Cheers Perry bashing app developers We shouldn't bash app developers like Blindfold Games. They make games for us, and while they may not be mainstream games, there are some of us who do enjoy them. Any updates on accessible games in the arcade? Just subscribed to the free trial for the kids and want to know if any are accessible? Has anyone found any usable by VO? Thanks! Apple's Responsibilities to Blind and Disabled People Before I give my 2 cents on this matter, I have to say that it's deplorable how many blind people are sighted apologists and go out of their way to excuse sighted people for their discriminatory behavior and attack those of us who rightly call it out. If you don't want to fight for accessibility, sit down and shut up and let those of us who are about that take it up as usual. Besides, we're the ones pulling the weight when you sighted apologists don't! Here is my problem with Apple, and it's not just Apple, but sighted owned companies in general. They market for our patronage, we buy from them, then they turn around and have the audacity to say that they owe us nothing. We need to start using our power as blind people to demand accessibility across the board, and boycott every sighted owned company that refuses to adhere to our demands. Apple has an obligation to require their developers to make all products and services accessible. Apple has billions of dollars at their disposal to make that happen. Even if developers don't incorporate accessibility, Apple can very readily code the apps with accessibility. Apple also must hire more blind developers, executives, and others throughout Apple's operations. For those people that say that we need to include disabled people in accessibility, you are correct. However, the disabled and multiple disability communities need to push for those things. The only responsibility we have as blind people is to advocate for our own interests. You don't see the wider disability community advocate for us. Also, one final remark. If Apple was serious about its diversity and inclusion efforts, they would hire people like Andre Louis or Jonathan Candler, people who know audio engineering, web development, and more. Apple has a lack of people in the accessibility division that know Logic, Final Cut Pro, and X Code. All of you that want to let Apple off the hook are the very reason why progress has largely been stagnant within the blind community, and has regressed in certain areas, particularly braille literacy. You hate yourselves so much and want to be sighted so bad that you're willing to undermine the blind community and collaborate with sighted folks for our demise. We're not going to allow you to control the narrative, period point blank! Blind power!!!